OnlyBucs

In two years, I thnk that's a far reach.  Very far. 



For the last several years, I see reaching the NLCS as what I see the reasonable goal for each season.  I always like to see the Pirates be good enough to get into the final four.



To go beyond that- to the WS- is more reasonable to me during those few "up" periods.



I've eliminated "world championship" from all thought, and used to laugh when I heard comments to that effect coming from the brass.  BOB doesn't pay to enter that contest, and never will.  The record of teams with low-tier payrolls winning the World Series is not one that I would ever place a bet on.



For the Pirates to rise, it means that some other club(s) in the division must fall.  In the next two seasons, I can see the possibilty of the Cardinals, Cubs, and maybe the Brewers falling some in the next two seasons.  The Reds might also rise.  We don't know the moves that any of those teams are going to make.  We really don't know all that Cherington has in mind for the Pirates in the next two seasons, either.



I can see the possibilty of a Wild Card entry in two years if the planets align to our advantage, but I don't think that many of the recent draftees will be up in time to make that much of a contribution by then.  I think it will take some improvement from other guys for it to happen so soon. 



I've been super surprised before.  I didn't expect them to do well at all before the 2013 season began. 

434B487F694C6B640A0 wrote: That seems high. He got more than Solometo. Maybe they think Kellington will be a below slot deal?


He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.

6B4C45454C5F5C4C6B5C4A290 wrote: That seems high. He got more than Solometo. Maybe they think Kellington will be a below slot deal?


He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.


Not only a 2 sport star, but a real chance to pitch and hit at the ML level. The Pirates have already said they will allow him to do both though they think pitching will be the biggest upside. Could you imagine if he develops into a version of Otani?

486F66666F7C7F6F487F690A0 wrote: That seems high. He got more than Solometo. Maybe they think Kellington will be a below slot deal?


He was also rated higher than Solometo, although they were close. Also had to buy him out of two sports, not just one.




Beginning 2016 I became the biggest critic of the FO that is possible. I was ticked that they did nothing to make the 2015 team just a little bit better and furious about the off-season. I believed the team had no intention to even try to be a WS team.



I was surprised when Ben and Williams were hired; why would they come here to ruin a career. Maybe, just maybe Nutting, gave them a promise. Still, I’ve been lukewarm until this draft - Ben impressed the heck out of me. And suddenly there is a darn good farm system. A few good players in Pittsburgh. And I can start to see a plan coming together.



I’m willing to treat next year as another throw away. But by 2023 the Pirates will begin to look like a good MLB TEAM. Wild card outside chance. But 2023 the plan will be coming together.

"Throwing a seaon away" and "competive" are similar in that they mean different things to different people.



Would finishing with a 100 basis point (.475) record be considered "thow away."  To me, it wouldn't.  I would see it as at least a sign that the club would be moving in the proper direction.  I also see it as reasonable and achievable.  That's not to say that it should be easy by any stretch.



But, if "throwing a season away" is to mean that we don't care how well the team performs, then I wouldn't agree with it.  That's just gives further acceptance for losing, IMO.

6A5F4848437A48484344482D0 wrote: "Throwing a seaon away" and "competive" are similar in that they mean different things to different people.



Would finishing with a 100 basis point (.475) record be considered "thow away."  To me, it wouldn't.  I would see it as at least a sign that the club would be moving in the proper direction.  I also see it as reasonable and achievable.  That's not to say that it should be easy by any stretch.



But, if "throwing a season away" is to mean that we don't care how well the team performs, then I wouldn't agree with it.  That's just gives further acceptance for losing, IMO.


I agree. This is a throw away season. Hopefully next year they will start assembling the team they expect to grow into a competitive team in another year. If next year is a losing season but a bridge to a winning team, it's not a throw away year.



To me, a competitive team is a team with a legit shot at at least a deep post season run. A team with significant weaknesses that barely squeaks into the WC game with no legit shot at winning the next series even if they get lucky in the WC game is not really competitive. For one thing, MLB could theoretically expand the post season to 20 teams. A team could get the last spot with a below .500 record. But being in the post season because a lot of slots had to be filled is not the same as being considered a team likely to defeat good teams and move ahead. It merely delays the inevitable final loss while better teams look ahead to a realistic chance of winning it all.

You and I (Gasp of all gasps!) seem to agree for the most part.



I'm going to let your decription of this season go.



I will never consider a season a "Throw Away" in my life. But, Shed and I got outvoted. ((



I'm just glad that the Diamondbacks took it easy on us.

636B685F496C4B442A0 wrote: So, by my count, here's where we're at:



Regardless...put all this together, and they're over slot by $100,200. Which also means they can spend an additional $619,500 over their allotted amount (at a 75% tax) without losing draft picks.



In other words, they have $2,241,200 to play with to sign White, Kellington, and Bishop. I assume those three are the priority. But hey...so far, so good.



Many, many thanks to this site for keeping things up to date. https://pirates.pittsburghbaseball.com/2021draft/


I think they have a little more ($125k) if you count Bishop and the $125k they can pay him before using up bonus pool. But at this point, I think our most likely outcomes are that we get White, or we get Kellington and Bishop. Given what they had to know going into day 2 of the draft about the bonuses to be paid to Solometo and Chandler, it doesn't seem possible they could have believed they would have enough to get White and Bishop. I think Kellington's ask might have increased too complicating matters more. I'll be happy to see all three signed and be absolutely wrong.

Throw away is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s not that they don’t want to win, it’s that they know they can’t be competitive as all of us are defining that term so far. And since they won’t be competitive they use the season to look at a lot of players, make trades that they might not make if they were competing, etc.



Why would anyone want the team to do all it can to win 75 games rather than 70? That’s not competing. Competing means that the FO is honest and if the team is not good enough they start taking steps NOW so that they can compete as soon as possible.

Then call it what it really is- "1, 2, 3, Punt And Sell The Future (That Never Arrives in the Burgh.)" They're experts at it. If you can't be good, draft.



Throw Away, Punt, whatever. It's not good. It only makes people feel good when they're losing.