The Departed
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:40 pm
766E6C6B6B7C6D6A777660050 wrote: To be clear, I referenced the article that specifically explains what has been different about Cole's coaching in Houston. This is quite relevant to the issue of why he seems to have reached the potential there that he failed to do in Pittsburgh. So while Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict among those who were influential, he specifically detailed:
"I used to throw a four-seam and the two-seam, and I used to probably lean on the two-seam almost 50 percent of the time or more. When I'd go into the room and have a meeting with them , they'd show me the data on my four-seam, and then they would show me what my best four-seams looked like. Like, they have video of it, and then they have statistics on it."
So it was the first time you've ever seen those stats?
"Yes, absolutely. They'd say here are the top 15 percent of the four-seams you've thrown your entire career, and this is what it looks like on the stat sheet; this is what the rotation looks like; this is what the ball looks like coming out of your hand. if you can strive to chase that, as opposed to some of the other fastballs that I throw, you don't have to hit spots as much, and you can just attack the zone in these areas. Just attack the zone."
So this was a revelation for you? Something you had never seen on paper?
"Yes. I mean, Charlie [Morton] kind of gave me a heads-up before I got in. I remember maybe like the first or second day, I was playing catch with Justin, after that meeting. When you're playing catch with a pitcher, there's an element of 'training' your mind. You just play catch like we all do, but at the same time you're going to work.
"Justin was asking questions like, 'What do you want me to look for?' And I was like, 'Maybe free and clear, something that looks it's timed up, that looks clean.' And he was, 'Ok, what about backspin? What kind of spin you want on your ball?' And I really didn't know.
"I just came into that meeting, and they talked to me about backspin and the four-seam and throwing it more. So then I remembered playing catch with Justin and when the ball is spinning true and getting the action that he is looking for in his fastball and, ultimately, what they're looking for in mine. He would give me a nod or like some sort of body language that, 'That was the right read.'"
So while all of that explains what has changed for him in Houston, Dog's response was: "The question was "Who helped you become the pitcher you are today?" He mentioned both of those guys" (referring to Searage and Benedict). So it looks like Dog doesn't want to give the credit to the Astros staff for getting Cole to the level he is currently at. He wants to make sure Searage and Benedict are included in the credit for how Cole is pitching TODAY even tho the article clearly shows why things have changed since Cole left the Pirates. That doesn't mean I'm knocking Searage. But it shows the Astros staff has performed productive analysis that the Pirates didn't do and the result is dramatic. It's nice Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict. Sure, they were helpful. But when he left the Pirates, we all wondered why he never became the stud he is TODAY. It's clear they are not the reason he is the pitcher he is TODAY. That would not have happened without the Astros' analysis.
This makes me sick, can't believe how far behind we are in player development. I was so frustrated with Cole but I knew he was a competitor and had a great arm, now we know there's a problem we must get up to speed immediately.
yeah, an area the Bucs need to be out front in is player development. For a little while it seemed like the Bucs were at the front of analytics and were on there way to being towards the top in development. Since the team can't pay for talent it has to be better than other teams to make up the difference.
"I used to throw a four-seam and the two-seam, and I used to probably lean on the two-seam almost 50 percent of the time or more. When I'd go into the room and have a meeting with them , they'd show me the data on my four-seam, and then they would show me what my best four-seams looked like. Like, they have video of it, and then they have statistics on it."
So it was the first time you've ever seen those stats?
"Yes, absolutely. They'd say here are the top 15 percent of the four-seams you've thrown your entire career, and this is what it looks like on the stat sheet; this is what the rotation looks like; this is what the ball looks like coming out of your hand. if you can strive to chase that, as opposed to some of the other fastballs that I throw, you don't have to hit spots as much, and you can just attack the zone in these areas. Just attack the zone."
So this was a revelation for you? Something you had never seen on paper?
"Yes. I mean, Charlie [Morton] kind of gave me a heads-up before I got in. I remember maybe like the first or second day, I was playing catch with Justin, after that meeting. When you're playing catch with a pitcher, there's an element of 'training' your mind. You just play catch like we all do, but at the same time you're going to work.
"Justin was asking questions like, 'What do you want me to look for?' And I was like, 'Maybe free and clear, something that looks it's timed up, that looks clean.' And he was, 'Ok, what about backspin? What kind of spin you want on your ball?' And I really didn't know.
"I just came into that meeting, and they talked to me about backspin and the four-seam and throwing it more. So then I remembered playing catch with Justin and when the ball is spinning true and getting the action that he is looking for in his fastball and, ultimately, what they're looking for in mine. He would give me a nod or like some sort of body language that, 'That was the right read.'"
So while all of that explains what has changed for him in Houston, Dog's response was: "The question was "Who helped you become the pitcher you are today?" He mentioned both of those guys" (referring to Searage and Benedict). So it looks like Dog doesn't want to give the credit to the Astros staff for getting Cole to the level he is currently at. He wants to make sure Searage and Benedict are included in the credit for how Cole is pitching TODAY even tho the article clearly shows why things have changed since Cole left the Pirates. That doesn't mean I'm knocking Searage. But it shows the Astros staff has performed productive analysis that the Pirates didn't do and the result is dramatic. It's nice Cole mentioned Searage and Benedict. Sure, they were helpful. But when he left the Pirates, we all wondered why he never became the stud he is TODAY. It's clear they are not the reason he is the pitcher he is TODAY. That would not have happened without the Astros' analysis.
This makes me sick, can't believe how far behind we are in player development. I was so frustrated with Cole but I knew he was a competitor and had a great arm, now we know there's a problem we must get up to speed immediately.
yeah, an area the Bucs need to be out front in is player development. For a little while it seemed like the Bucs were at the front of analytics and were on there way to being towards the top in development. Since the team can't pay for talent it has to be better than other teams to make up the difference.