67604C5B4D2E0 wrote: Blocked out from seeing any Reds or Cardinals games so I did not see the game today. However, whether we call it indifference, tanking, or whatever, it does appear the Pirates are attempting to suppress any premature success.
Other teams (certainly Houston) have used this formula recently, and it is not unique to baseball. I just deplore going this route. I don’t believe anyone thinks Cherrington is dumb, and no one can do as many dumb things as Shelton and retain his job. But what are they supposed to say, “hey we are going to tank until all the stars are aligned?”
Hopefully the boys on the farm start playing well so they can pressure TBMTIB 2.0 to call them up. We need to break this cycle of insanity, invest in some added pieces, and maybe allow the starting lineup to play six games a week.
This is the direction the whole organization is going. At AA yesterday, Burrows goes 4 innings, gives up 1 hit, 1 BB, 6Ks, is at 62 pitches and gets pulled.
We are also having most players learn several positions now. Not sure why, but BC has everyone on the same page.
Yesterday was rough. Peters has been so good, and he was just awful. You could feel the air go out of the team as he struggled. It used to be embarrassing if you couldn't hit above the Mendoza Line, now it seems half our hitters are below or barely above it.
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
183A29343732353A192E3838345B0 wrote: Hayes (and everyone) was off Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday.
It's INEXCUSABLE to "rest" Hayes on Sunday.
Two things I predicted would happen this weekend:
1. Pirates would lose the series to a team that had lost 20 of 21
2. Hayes would get Sunday off after resting all week.
The Pirates are no better than the Reds. Very sad ... but very true.
It’s absolutely mind boggling to me that a team can go 27 games into the season and still not have one win by a starting pitcher and only be 5 games under .500. Their record should be as bad as the Reds at 5-23 with this happening. I’m with you as well resting Hayes when you had 4 days off this week is flat out inexcusable and embarrassing.
It's INEXCUSABLE to "rest" Hayes on Sunday.
Two things I predicted would happen this weekend:
1. Pirates would lose the series to a team that had lost 20 of 21
2. Hayes would get Sunday off after resting all week.
The Pirates are no better than the Reds. Very sad ... but very true.
It’s absolutely mind boggling to me that a team can go 27 games into the season and still not have one win by a starting pitcher and only be 5 games under .500. Their record should be as bad as the Reds at 5-23 with this happening. I’m with you as well resting Hayes when you had 4 days off this week is flat out inexcusable and embarrassing.
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SteadyFreddy
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
045244505F45555E534476515B575F5A1855360 wrote: It's becoming more obvious that the goal this year is to have the worst record possible so BC can grab one more high draft pick. The roster is the evidence. Shelton overseeing this plan is helping tremendously, whether he's being instructed from above or he's doing it on his own.
Just one more season of this, guys. Next year is the beginning of being on the road to respectability. In the meantime, stay away from bridges and sharp objects. We've all earned the right to live long enough to see it.
If this team truly plans on competing and not doing the things they are doing this season in 2023 then you can’t have Derek Shelton and this coaching staff leading this team. He isn’t the right man to lead a young team like this. He needs to go and needs to go at the end of the season. A guy I think would be perfect to come in here is John Farrell. He has worked with Cherrington when the Red Sox won the World Series in 2013. He would be the perfect replacement which I hope they strongly consider.
Just one more season of this, guys. Next year is the beginning of being on the road to respectability. In the meantime, stay away from bridges and sharp objects. We've all earned the right to live long enough to see it.
If this team truly plans on competing and not doing the things they are doing this season in 2023 then you can’t have Derek Shelton and this coaching staff leading this team. He isn’t the right man to lead a young team like this. He needs to go and needs to go at the end of the season. A guy I think would be perfect to come in here is John Farrell. He has worked with Cherrington when the Red Sox won the World Series in 2013. He would be the perfect replacement which I hope they strongly consider.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
Yes, indeed.
SHAME on Shelton for DISOBEYING Cherington all the time. I wonder who hired the guy. Oh, that's right. It was CHERINGTON
SHAME on Shelton for DISOBEYING Cherington all the time. I wonder who hired the guy. Oh, that's right. It was CHERINGTON
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
40677672776A55617677776A130 wrote: It's becoming more obvious that the goal this year is to have the worst record possible so BC can grab one more high draft pick. The roster is the evidence. Shelton overseeing this plan is helping tremendously, whether he's being instructed from above or he's doing it on his own.
Just one more season of this, guys. Next year is the beginning of being on the road to respectability. In the meantime, stay away from bridges and sharp objects. We've all earned the right to live long enough to see it.
If this team truly plans on competing and not doing the things they are doing this season in 2023 then you can’t have Derek Shelton and this coaching staff leading this team. He isn’t the right man to lead a young team like this. He needs to go and needs to go at the end of the season. A guy I think would be perfect to come in here is John Farrell. He has worked with Cherrington when the Red Sox won the World Series in 2013. He would be the perfect replacement which I hope they strongly consider.
I've come to believe that Shelton was hired to be the sacrificial lamb and that BC has no intention of keeping him around once the team is ready to win. BC probably has always had one or two replacements in mind once that time comes.
Just one more season of this, guys. Next year is the beginning of being on the road to respectability. In the meantime, stay away from bridges and sharp objects. We've all earned the right to live long enough to see it.
If this team truly plans on competing and not doing the things they are doing this season in 2023 then you can’t have Derek Shelton and this coaching staff leading this team. He isn’t the right man to lead a young team like this. He needs to go and needs to go at the end of the season. A guy I think would be perfect to come in here is John Farrell. He has worked with Cherrington when the Red Sox won the World Series in 2013. He would be the perfect replacement which I hope they strongly consider.
I've come to believe that Shelton was hired to be the sacrificial lamb and that BC has no intention of keeping him around once the team is ready to win. BC probably has always had one or two replacements in mind once that time comes.
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GreenWeenie
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- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
If Cherington doesn't get on the stick and provide a much better roster, they may go out on the same bus.
We're losing for > one reason.
We're losing for > one reason.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
557875646372652526170 wrote: Thompson was pulled after 5 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 BBs, 79 pitches. No reason to pull him and hope the BP can do as well as the guy they are replacing. Even good relievers can have bad days. Reds couldn't get anything going against Thompson but were handed the game by the BP. I can only conclude this is the result Shelton wants. Benches Hayes for getting 3 hits in game 2 yesterday and pulls Thompson because the Reds can't score against him. Both Shelton's integrity and intelligence have to come under question.
I guess my big concern is his boss. If I was the boss and was watching this fiasco, I'm sure I would fire the guy in a heart beat. Soooo the only thing you can conclude is Cherington is on board with this soooo that really really concerns me about whether this misery is ever going to end or at least get better. We can't endure 2 or 3 more years just to find out we have the wrong leadership again.
I believe that either Shelton is under orders to tank or Cherington sees that Shelton is so incompetent that they will lose without trying. I don't believe Cherington is so stupid that he can't see how detrimental Shelton is to the team. So this must be the result he wants.
You can't flip a switch and start winning - you can't bring up some better prospects and the wins start rolling in. Teams learn how to win given different game situations and how they handle them, and what they learn from them - and that takes time.
I think I have the same feeling you have Bob, and that is Shelton isn't even trying to win either with his roster decisions or his in game pitching choices. Whether that is on purpose or not, I don't know. But the whole wait until 2023 when the kids are ready will get pushed back to wait until 2024 as the kids are learning how to win, and then wait until 2025 I think they are finally ready, and so on. And we've done that prospect thing before and that only works if we actually have good ones and not guys who rake in AA but can't hit MLB pitchers - or cruise in AA, but can't get MLB hitters out (see Keller).
I see this year as an important bridge year to getting better, we've lost enough and have enough high picks. But I sure get the feeling that what I'd like to see from this team doesn't jibe with what management has in mind. One thing is for sure, I've given him enough time and I don't like what I see in Shelton.
I guess my big concern is his boss. If I was the boss and was watching this fiasco, I'm sure I would fire the guy in a heart beat. Soooo the only thing you can conclude is Cherington is on board with this soooo that really really concerns me about whether this misery is ever going to end or at least get better. We can't endure 2 or 3 more years just to find out we have the wrong leadership again.
I believe that either Shelton is under orders to tank or Cherington sees that Shelton is so incompetent that they will lose without trying. I don't believe Cherington is so stupid that he can't see how detrimental Shelton is to the team. So this must be the result he wants.
You can't flip a switch and start winning - you can't bring up some better prospects and the wins start rolling in. Teams learn how to win given different game situations and how they handle them, and what they learn from them - and that takes time.
I think I have the same feeling you have Bob, and that is Shelton isn't even trying to win either with his roster decisions or his in game pitching choices. Whether that is on purpose or not, I don't know. But the whole wait until 2023 when the kids are ready will get pushed back to wait until 2024 as the kids are learning how to win, and then wait until 2025 I think they are finally ready, and so on. And we've done that prospect thing before and that only works if we actually have good ones and not guys who rake in AA but can't hit MLB pitchers - or cruise in AA, but can't get MLB hitters out (see Keller).
I see this year as an important bridge year to getting better, we've lost enough and have enough high picks. But I sure get the feeling that what I'd like to see from this team doesn't jibe with what management has in mind. One thing is for sure, I've given him enough time and I don't like what I see in Shelton.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread 5/8/2022 Pirates vs. Reds
If what you write is true, then it means that Shelton's unable to flick that same switch.
Look again at the roster. There isn't a manager alive- and, probably wasn't one dead- who would do much better, while working with a GM who wants playing time for everyone and a certain amount of rest.
We don't have the guys, and it is showing. That's on Ben, not Shelton.
Look again at the roster. There isn't a manager alive- and, probably wasn't one dead- who would do much better, while working with a GM who wants playing time for everyone and a certain amount of rest.
We don't have the guys, and it is showing. That's on Ben, not Shelton.