143E350532242428470 wrote: I just saw a small snippet that the Union and Management met early this week and there was discussion about taxing teams that exceeded payroll limits, as well as a salary minimum. A salary minimum, or floor would be very beneficial for baseball. Teams could no longer spend on payroll at very small amounts. Teams like the Pirates would have to spend by either signing free agents, or better yet,retain the players that they have developed. The negotiations are probably at the beginning stages, but I hope that as they continue to negotiate some type of salary minimum remains on the table. In my opinion baseball needs some type of payroll minimum.
Best news I've heard all year!
They already tax teams that go over the threshold
Problem is that the threshold is too high. Only the Dodgers exceed it. The players union will never accept a salary cap. However they would accept a salary floor and MLB must implement that in order to restore some mode of competitive balance. You cannot have Nutting spend <$50M when the average ML payroll is north of $120M
There is however another piece to the puzzle that MLB has the power to do. Let the major markets keep their local revenue. That is only fair. However do not split the National revenue equally among all teams as is done now. Put in a system where the smaller market teams receive a greater share of the National revenue.
Small market teams would receive more money making it impossible for an owner to claim they cannot support a minimum payroll. This would help eliminate the cycle of having to tank seasons in order to build from the draft. More competitive baseball
2022 CBA
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
maher.timothy20@gm
2022 CBA
I think a salary/cap floor is absolutely what the league needs but it's depressing that this is their opening argument. Even if a salary cap/floor is instituted (far from guaranteed), it'll be watered down before it becomes a reality. It'll end up being something like a $200M cap and an $80M floor, which is close to no change at all.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
2022 CBA
They already have a floor. The problem is that the current one ie far too low. To your point, even a penny pinching, carpetbagging, selfish, greedy, no good miser like BOB has no problem at all exceeding it. Just pay Polanco $11 mpy and you can coast on the rest.
There is a penalty for exceeding the current cap, but some owners (those not named BOB) are willing to pay it.
There is a penalty for exceeding the current cap, but some owners (those not named BOB) are willing to pay it.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
2022 CBA
162334343F0634343F3834510 wrote: They already have a floor. The problem is that the current one ie far too low. To your point, even a penny pinching, carpetbagging, selfish, greedy, no good miser like BOB has no problem at all exceeding it. Just pay Polanco $11 mpy and you can coast on the rest.
There is a penalty for exceeding the current cap, but some owners (those not named BOB) are willing to pay it.
There is no team salary floor other than the minimum major league player salary which is $570,000
You could say that if you paid every player the minimum then you would have 26 X $570,000 or $14.4M
I am talking about a team salary floor the needs to be implemented.
Interesting to note that MLB in anticipation of the pending collective bargaining sessions has actually proposed a minimum team salary floor of $100M to go with a ceiling of $180M
Current ceiling is over $200M so I think this would be a non starter as far as the Players Union is concerned.
However it is encouraging that a team salary floor is being discussed. Might even make Nutting want to sell?
There is a penalty for exceeding the current cap, but some owners (those not named BOB) are willing to pay it.
There is no team salary floor other than the minimum major league player salary which is $570,000
You could say that if you paid every player the minimum then you would have 26 X $570,000 or $14.4M
I am talking about a team salary floor the needs to be implemented.
Interesting to note that MLB in anticipation of the pending collective bargaining sessions has actually proposed a minimum team salary floor of $100M to go with a ceiling of $180M
Current ceiling is over $200M so I think this would be a non starter as far as the Players Union is concerned.
However it is encouraging that a team salary floor is being discussed. Might even make Nutting want to sell?
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
2022 CBA
That's the floor. Might not be called a floor, but so what? It's the floor. And, it's far too low to have any chance to win the commissioner's trophy. Effectively, 15 teams eliminate themselves before Opening Day. The Rays gave a good run at it last year, but even they found out.
2022 CBA
I'm struggling, y'all. I haven't watched a single MLB game all year. I watched two innings of Rays/Red Sox on the 4th of July because it was the 4th. But that's it. Nothing else at all. Cancelled my MLB.tv subscription. Haven't watched ten seconds of MLB Network. I hate what they've done to the game. First it was the four finger wave for an IBB, then three-batter minimums. Then the NL DH, the extra inning ghost runners, and seven inning games in double headers (thank goodness that's gone). Rules against position players pitching. A special rule put in place for one single player (the Shohei Ohtani rule). Next year, they're banning shifts, changing the size of bases, and thus the distance between bases, and potentially limiting how far back outfielders can play. There's talk of backing the mound up a foot, and moving second base so it's not a straight line between first and second, and between second and third.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
2022 CBA
787073445277505F310 wrote: I'm struggling, y'all. I haven't watched a single MLB game all year. I watched two innings of Rays/Red Sox on the 4th of July because it was the 4th. But that's it. Nothing else at all. Cancelled my MLB.tv subscription. Haven't watched ten seconds of MLB Network. I hate what they've done to the game. First it was the four finger wave for an IBB, then three-batter minimums. Then the NL DH, the extra inning ghost runners, and seven inning games in double headers (thank goodness that's gone). Rules against position players pitching. A special rule put in place for one single player (the Shohei Ohtani rule). Next year, they're banning shifts, changing the size of bases, and thus the distance between bases, and potentially limiting how far back outfielders can play. There's talk of backing the mound up a foot, and moving second base so it's not a straight line between first and second, and between second and third.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
I rarely watch or listen to games anymore. I just follow along on the computer. Since the Pirates are not a contender I don't worry about standings or what other teams are doing. I think I will watch more and pay closer attention when the Bucs are better. 2013-15 were exciting and I can't wait for that to come back.
I've posted before that for me it is much harder to follow baseball because there isn't a page of box scores in the newspaper anymore. Who (definitely not me) wants to click on every team 's page to get stats? I can follow the Pirates minor league stats but don't follow other teams. I used to subscribe to The Sporting News and Baseball America and looked forward to their arrival.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
I rarely watch or listen to games anymore. I just follow along on the computer. Since the Pirates are not a contender I don't worry about standings or what other teams are doing. I think I will watch more and pay closer attention when the Bucs are better. 2013-15 were exciting and I can't wait for that to come back.
I've posted before that for me it is much harder to follow baseball because there isn't a page of box scores in the newspaper anymore. Who (definitely not me) wants to click on every team 's page to get stats? I can follow the Pirates minor league stats but don't follow other teams. I used to subscribe to The Sporting News and Baseball America and looked forward to their arrival.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
2022 CBA
484043746247606F010 wrote: I'm struggling, y'all. I haven't watched a single MLB game all year. I watched two innings of Rays/Red Sox on the 4th of July because it was the 4th. But that's it. Nothing else at all. Cancelled my MLB.tv subscription. Haven't watched ten seconds of MLB Network. I hate what they've done to the game. First it was the four finger wave for an IBB, then three-batter minimums. Then the NL DH, the extra inning ghost runners, and seven inning games in double headers (thank goodness that's gone). Rules against position players pitching. A special rule put in place for one single player (the Shohei Ohtani rule). Next year, they're banning shifts, changing the size of bases, and thus the distance between bases, and potentially limiting how far back outfielders can play. There's talk of backing the mound up a foot, and moving second base so it's not a straight line between first and second, and between second and third.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
I'm paying more attention to the Pirates this year than I have in the past couple because of the work Cherington is doing. For the first time since 2016 I believe the organization, on the baseball side, is moving in the right direction. We can't do anything about Nutting so I try not to think about how he cripples the major league team when it comes to competing.
Like you, the rules changes are disappointing, to be kind. I'm trying my best to look past them and just focus on the action in the game. It's still a beautiful thing to watch once the ball is put into play, and then to think about in between pitches. I can't ever see myself not paying attention, in some way, to baseball in general and the Pirates in particular, no matter how the owners screw it up.
However, if the Pirates get to where they were in 2015, and Nutting gets in the way again, I'm not sure if my interest will continue.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
I'm paying more attention to the Pirates this year than I have in the past couple because of the work Cherington is doing. For the first time since 2016 I believe the organization, on the baseball side, is moving in the right direction. We can't do anything about Nutting so I try not to think about how he cripples the major league team when it comes to competing.
Like you, the rules changes are disappointing, to be kind. I'm trying my best to look past them and just focus on the action in the game. It's still a beautiful thing to watch once the ball is put into play, and then to think about in between pitches. I can't ever see myself not paying attention, in some way, to baseball in general and the Pirates in particular, no matter how the owners screw it up.
However, if the Pirates get to where they were in 2015, and Nutting gets in the way again, I'm not sure if my interest will continue.
-
Bobster21
2022 CBA
I love Pirate baseball and rarely miss a game. But it's far different from how I used to feel about it. I don't check the standings because the Pirates are not relevant. I don't feel emotionally invested because losing is the norm and winning is just a brief break from losing. The owners have no regard for the traditions of the game and I refuse to watch games after 9 innings because beginning innings with imaginary batters hitting imaginary doubles is not baseball. So at that point I have no interest in who wins that horrible mutation of the game.
I grew up with the excitement of the 1960s and 70s. Since then it's been 3 good years in the '90s and another 3 in 2013-15. Ownership makes no effort to win. We get incompetent managers like McClendon, Tracy, Russell and now Shelton. It's hard to get excited about how much rest Shelton gives his players. But that seems to be his priority along with as many different lineups as he can generate. Not exactly spellbinding stuff for long time fans. And then we have to suffer through the broadcasts where the announcers are given an overabundance of camera time as they try to entertain us with comedy and watching them eat or having wordsmith Joe Block on air grinning as if he's so proud of himself for constantly getting his analyst to explain baseball to us.
The team is bad, the ownership is bad, the rules of the game are changing for the worse and the game broadcasts are usually very irritating unless you tune in just for "wacky antics" the announcers. Being a Pirate fan has been ingrained in me since about age 6. But if I did not have that history with the Pirates, I would never watch a single game as it is played and presented today.
I grew up with the excitement of the 1960s and 70s. Since then it's been 3 good years in the '90s and another 3 in 2013-15. Ownership makes no effort to win. We get incompetent managers like McClendon, Tracy, Russell and now Shelton. It's hard to get excited about how much rest Shelton gives his players. But that seems to be his priority along with as many different lineups as he can generate. Not exactly spellbinding stuff for long time fans. And then we have to suffer through the broadcasts where the announcers are given an overabundance of camera time as they try to entertain us with comedy and watching them eat or having wordsmith Joe Block on air grinning as if he's so proud of himself for constantly getting his analyst to explain baseball to us.
The team is bad, the ownership is bad, the rules of the game are changing for the worse and the game broadcasts are usually very irritating unless you tune in just for "wacky antics" the announcers. Being a Pirate fan has been ingrained in me since about age 6. But if I did not have that history with the Pirates, I would never watch a single game as it is played and presented today.
-
WildwoodDave2
2022 CBA
7E283E2A253F2F24293E0C2B212D2520622F4C0 wrote: I'm struggling, y'all. I haven't watched a single MLB game all year. I watched two innings of Rays/Red Sox on the 4th of July because it was the 4th. But that's it. Nothing else at all. Cancelled my MLB.tv subscription. Haven't watched ten seconds of MLB Network. I hate what they've done to the game. First it was the four finger wave for an IBB, then three-batter minimums. Then the NL DH, the extra inning ghost runners, and seven inning games in double headers (thank goodness that's gone). Rules against position players pitching. A special rule put in place for one single player (the Shohei Ohtani rule). Next year, they're banning shifts, changing the size of bases, and thus the distance between bases, and potentially limiting how far back outfielders can play. There's talk of backing the mound up a foot, and moving second base so it's not a straight line between first and second, and between second and third.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
I'm paying more attention to the Pirates this year than I have in the past couple because of the work Cherington is doing. For the first time since 2016 I believe the organization, on the baseball side, is moving in the right direction. We can't do anything about Nutting so I try not to think about how he cripples the major league team when it comes to competing.
Like you, the rules changes are disappointing, to be kind. I'm trying my best to look past them and just focus on the action in the game. It's still a beautiful thing to watch once the ball is put into play, and then to think about in between pitches. I can't ever see myself not paying attention, in some way, to baseball in general and the Pirates in particular, no matter how the owners screw it up.
However, if the Pirates get to where they were in 2015, and Nutting gets in the way again, I'm not sure if my interest will continue.
If Nutting gets in the way again, you know who, will be
absolutely unbearable to talk too or play golf.
Yes, there's still pitching, hitting, fielding, and base running. But I hardly recognize this game anymore.
Some may call me an old fuddy-duddy. I don't care. I'm 40. Is that old? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends. To a fifteen year old, it's ancient. To someone who is 75, I'm still a young puppy. Regardless, I used to love baseball. I'd watch 100 Pirates games a year, and probably 25 others. On days when I couldn't watch the Pirates game for some reason, I'd watch highlights of the game. But I haven't done any of that this year.
On top of everything I lamented above, MLB has actually managed to make it harder to watch your favorite team's games. It's bad enough that they didn't get rid of the blackouts (six teams are blacked out here in Iowa). But now, to get every game, you need to subscribe to a cable or satellite service with your local RSN, MLB.tv or Extra Innings, Peacock, and Apple TV+. It's insane.
But, I kind of miss it. Being a diehard Oklahoma Sooners fan, I watched most of the College World Series. The high school where I teach at in Iowa just qualified for the state tournament, and I enjoyed going to the game yesterday to root for them.
I'm hoping maybe one or more of you can help me...is it as bad as I'm making it out to be?
I'm paying more attention to the Pirates this year than I have in the past couple because of the work Cherington is doing. For the first time since 2016 I believe the organization, on the baseball side, is moving in the right direction. We can't do anything about Nutting so I try not to think about how he cripples the major league team when it comes to competing.
Like you, the rules changes are disappointing, to be kind. I'm trying my best to look past them and just focus on the action in the game. It's still a beautiful thing to watch once the ball is put into play, and then to think about in between pitches. I can't ever see myself not paying attention, in some way, to baseball in general and the Pirates in particular, no matter how the owners screw it up.
However, if the Pirates get to where they were in 2015, and Nutting gets in the way again, I'm not sure if my interest will continue.
If Nutting gets in the way again, you know who, will be
absolutely unbearable to talk too or play golf.