OnlyBucs

What a really nice win by the Bucs tonight. Got down early, chipped away, and won in their last at bat. Contributions came from just about everyone in ways big and small. All the runs were scored in rallies, no HRs needed. Baseball played the way I like best.

287E687C736979727F685A7D777B737634791A0 wrote: What a really nice win by the Bucs tonight.  Got down early, chipped away, and won in their last at bat.  Contributions came from just about everyone in ways big and small.  All the runs were scored in rallies, no HRs needed.  Baseball played the way I like best. 
Not bad for the Hodgepodge boys

6C3A2C38372D3D363B2C1E39333F3732703D5E0 wrote: Newman doubles and it's all tied up!!!!!


In the mess that this season is, Newman has been a really pleasant surprise to me.  He doesn’t seem to fit in here but it’s clear that he’s a much better player right now than Oniel Cruz.  I wonder what BC’s going to do with him in the offseason?


I hope we keep him. He's still young. He's hit .300 in the past. He's hitting .280 now. Bae, Rodriguez, Peguero are all just hopes and dreams now. At some point we need to acknowledge that Newman is good.

5C505954431F45585C5E455948030171565C310 wrote: Newman doubles and it's all tied up!!!!!


In the mess that this season is, Newman has been a really pleasant surprise to me.  He doesn’t seem to fit in here but it’s clear that he’s a much better player right now than Oniel Cruz.  I wonder what BC’s going to do with him in the offseason?


I hope we keep him. He's still young. He's hit .300 in the past. He's hitting .280 now. Bae, Rodriguez, Peguero are all just hopes and dreams now. At some point we need to acknowledge that Newman is good.






Back in April, I figured he was good as gone, which I had no problem with.  And when Cruz was promoted, I thought his end certainly was near.  But he showed nearly everyday that he had something to offer and illustrated an interesting contrast to Cruz, one that showed there’s something to be said for boring, but steady, over explosive, but far too often disappointing.

I think Cruz and Newman are similar, in the sense that sometimes you need to give a young player a few years to figure things out.

Looks like Shelton is coming back for 2023 per BC. GMBC uses the "r" word for the first time. Article by Delos Santos on the mlb site

I guess "the r word" is rebuild, and this is the quote (via Biertempfel in the Athletic):



“I really do believe we’re making progress in a lot of ways that isn’t showing up — it’s not going to show up publicly — but will help lead us to success,” Cherington said. “The thing about baseball is, there’s no blueprint you can look up to tell you what a rebuild is supposed to look like. … I think we’re at a moment in time (when) progress should not be measured entirely by wins and losses.”


It seems the conversation concerned Eckersley's disparaging of the team.

22110D0C0F07310C170B1017060A0D630 wrote: I guess "the r word" is rebuild, and this is the quote (via Biertempfel in the Athletic):



“I really do believe we’re making progress in a lot of ways that isn’t showing up — it’s not going to show up publicly — but will help lead us to success,” Cherington said. “The thing about baseball is, there’s no blueprint you can look up to tell you what a rebuild is supposed to look like. … I think we’re at a moment in time (when) progress should not be measured entirely by wins and losses.”


It seems the conversation concerned Eckersley's disparaging of the team.


But I don't think this is how he wanted to be describing the process at this point. He can't point to a single player who has come up this season and looked good. So he says they're making progress in ways we can't see. It's also disingenuous to suggest people are measuring the progress in wins and losses. The losses were expected. What we want to see is individual progress of players being counted on for a successful rebuild. But 100% of the players who were called up this season have hit poorly. Some have been poor defensively and some have made mental mistakes. There's not a single player they've brought up who I can say I'm excited about for next year. All I can say for all of them is that they need to get a lot better if this team is going to compete. Don't tell me they're making progress but I just can't see it.

5D707D6C6B7A6D2D2E1F0 wrote: I guess "the r word" is rebuild, and this is the quote (via Biertempfel in the Athletic):



“I really do believe we’re making progress in a lot of ways that isn’t showing up — it’s not going to show up publicly — but will help lead us to success,” Cherington said. “The thing about baseball is, there’s no blueprint you can look up to tell you what a rebuild is supposed to look like. … I think we’re at a moment in time (when) progress should not be measured entirely by wins and losses.”


It seems the conversation concerned Eckersley's disparaging of the team.


But I don't think this is how he wanted to be describing the process at this point. He can't point to a single player who has come up this season and looked good. So he says they're making progress in ways we can't see. It's also disingenuous to suggest people are measuring the progress in wins and losses. The losses were expected. What we want to see is individual progress of players being counted on for a successful rebuild. But 100% of the players who were called up this season have hit poorly. Some have been poor defensively and some have made mental mistakes. There's not a single player they've brought up who I can say I'm excited about for next year. All I can say for all of them is that they need to get a lot better if this team is going to compete. Don't tell me they're making progress but I just can't see it. 


I agree with so much of what you wrote here, except for one small thing. While I agree that BC doesn’t want to be “describing the process at this point”, I do think that he knew it would take at least three years before real progress began to show itself. That’s because that’s how long it takes.



When he got here, he had some good talent, but knew two things about those guys: first, the team never came close to winning with them and, second, none of them were going to sign extensions to stay. So he knew he had to deal them. Sadly, every other GM knew those same two things, which minimized his bargaining ability, making the return less than what we fans hoped for.



Since free agents were off the table to sign (we know the reason), drafting and International signings were his only way to build. Unfortunately, it’s also the slowest process. Has there ever been a new GM who began a rebuild almost exclusively through the draft where success came in the form of winning baseball within three years? It just doesn’t happen.



That doesn’t make it any easier for us fans to tolerate, though, especially when we begin seeing the youngsters arrive and they all show horribly big warts. We wonder why none of them look like Vlady Jr, or Ronald Acuna or Juan Soto. At the very least, we want to see indications that good players are near at hand as the youngsters show their talents. It started out that way earlier in the year when a handful of them arrived around the same time, but it all went south fast. I’m not sure why that happened, but it’d be at least a little encouraging if we got to see signs of those talents again soon. As you said, not one of them has shown he’s going to be real good complete player.



I’m expecting the situation (better players winning more games) to be improved next year. If by this time in 2023 it’s been mostly a repeat of this year, then my opinions of BC will begin to change. Expecting him to rebuild a terribly-run organization on every level, completely change the culture throughout, overcome the obstacles erected by the worst owner in the game, and acquire nearly all new talent from top to bottom in less than three years isn’t being fair. Like you, I don’t want him to be disingenuous with us, but I also understand that when he tries to be positive in the media, he’s mostly trying to protect the players who are here giving their all. It’s just that their all isn’t quite good enough.

My respect for and confidence in Cherington just took a hit.



1) Why announce in August that Shelton is coming back? While I believe he should have been relieved of his duties quite a while ago, I assume that the Bucs will be using the last 40 games or so to evaluate their players. The same, at a minimum, should apply to the manager.



2) How can any general manager or manager continue to watch Rabelo at 3rd and allow him to trot out to the coach's box for even 1 more pitch. Gamel almost made up for his stupidity last night. BC should bring Rabelo into his office and make him watch his actions and ask him to respond to what he was doing. He should then hand him a check for his pay for the rest of the year and tell him he's gone. BC --- you regularly dash the dreams of ballplayers by releasing them or sending them to the minors. Coaching accountability matters too.



3) I clearly am not a baseball scout. That said, I would like to see the team's internal evaluations of how the rookies are performing. As I watch the games, I don't see much improvement, and some have crated at the plate, particularly Cruz and Madris (although it was great to see Madris have a good game at the plate last night). If BC is going to make these kind of ridiculous statements, he should offer some support for his observations.



Nice win last night. Lots of players contributed. Wilson continues to press his case that he is one of the better pitching suspects on the team who should be considered for a starting role next year. Time to see if this team can pull off a 3 game win streak.