OnlyBucs

5F7A697C606B6061646C080 wrote: I don't think you jerk your top prospects around.  You should wait to bring them up until you think they are ready and then you let them stay unless they show they can't succeed.  I think Glasnow should stay.  Pretty soon there will be seven starters for five spots, though, and that will be interesting.  It seems Kuhl has pitched well enough to stay although it probably was not the intention for him to stay long term when he was brought to the majors.  I'm certain the front office has no intention of retaining Niese for the option years based upon his performance so maybe they might be willing to just release him if he can't be traded.  I'm not bullish on Liriano getting back to his previous performance but I suspect he's going to keep going out there.


Yeah I'd keep him unless things get really out of control, or if they feel the need to run some short term innings-management shenanigans like they seem to be doing with Taillon.

2C252D3C32480 wrote:



He definitely needs to work in the change very very occasionally, but yes didn't throw it yesterday in his ML debut.    Surely we can give him another start?



Everyone was fine with a MUCH less talented Juan Nicasio and his two pitch arsenal being in the major league rotation.   Control issues, and all.    Glasnow has a better two pitches than Nicasio, even without the change at all.



Glasnow has arrived.   ML competition will make him better.



In my opinion, the idea that "a couple more starts" in AAA will somehow make his changeup ready is flawed thinking.    Pitchers work on pitches in the majors all the time. Only way to gain confidence against major league hitters is the face major league hitters.   



I don't understand what people are so afraid of.   Him getting hit a little?   if that does happen, he'll fit right in as he adjusts



"Sorry kid, you have to go back down.  I know you allowed 4 baserunners in 5.1 and have a 1.70 ERA in AAA...but next time, throw 3 or 4 changeups"






In the end, Nicasio's a relief pitcher because he doesn't have a change, but his upside with three pitches is much higher as is Glasnow. With two plus pitches and just a passable change up Glasnow is an solid two or three in any rotation. Think AJ Burnett towards the end. Nicasio's an easy 4. If he manages to get it to where its an average or even (wishful thinking) a plus pitch, he could be one of the best in baseball.



The key for me to developing any skill like this is repetition. If Glasnow starts in the minors, I would guess that he's instructed to throw a change quite often. In two minor league starts, I don't think it's out of the question to guess that he might throw the change more times than he would the rest of the season in the majors. Keep him down for another month and he might throw it more than he would in games this year and most of next. While he'll still work on it in bullpens, I don't think you can replace throwing it in real counts against real hitters.



Can he hang right now? Yes, while he did get smacked around a little I think he has shown he can get major league hitters out. I'm greedy though. I want the best Glasnow possible for his 6 and half years of control with the Pirates. I'm also patient and I can see that if we defer gratification a few starts or even a month, he's going to have better feel for the pitch that separates him from being great and being another Nicasio.



Barring injury, he'll get at least two more starts in AAA. I actually would have no beef with his getting more than that.

I think one of the problems he has had is that if hitters are sitting on his fastball and get a change they tend to clobber it because he throws it 90-91.  He throws it in the minors for a while then stops using it again. 

6D4A5B485B0F0707060F3E0 wrote:



He definitely needs to work in the change very very occasionally, but yes didn't throw it yesterday in his ML debut.    Surely we can give him another start?



Everyone was fine with a MUCH less talented Juan Nicasio and his two pitch arsenal being in the major league rotation.   Control issues, and all.    Glasnow has a better two pitches than Nicasio, even without the change at all.



Glasnow has arrived.   ML competition will make him better.



In my opinion, the idea that "a couple more starts" in AAA will somehow make his changeup ready is flawed thinking.    Pitchers work on pitches in the majors all the time. Only way to gain confidence against major league hitters is the face major league hitters.   



I don't understand what people are so afraid of.   Him getting hit a little?   if that does happen, he'll fit right in as he adjusts



"Sorry kid, you have to go back down.  I know you allowed 4 baserunners in 5.1 and have a 1.70 ERA in AAA...but next time, throw 3 or 4 changeups"






In the end, Nicasio's a relief pitcher because he doesn't have a change, but his upside with three pitches is much higher as is Glasnow. With two plus pitches and just a passable change up Glasnow is an solid two or three in any rotation.  Think AJ Burnett towards the end.  Nicasio's an easy 4. If he manages to get it to where its an average or even (wishful thinking) a plus pitch, he could be one of the best in baseball.



The key for me to developing any skill like this is repetition. If Glasnow starts in the minors, I would guess that he's instructed to throw a change quite often. In two minor league starts, I don't think it's out of the question to guess that he might throw the change more times than he would the rest of the season in the majors. Keep him down for another month and he might throw it more than he would in games this year and most of next. While he'll still work on it in bullpens, I don't think you can replace throwing it in real counts against real hitters.



Can he hang right now? Yes, while he did get smacked around a little I think he has shown he can get major league hitters out. I'm greedy though. I want the best Glasnow possible for his 6 and half years of control with the Pirates. I'm also patient and I can see that if we defer gratification a few starts or even a month, he's going to have better feel for the pitch that separates him from being great and being another Nicasio.



Barring injury, he'll get at least two more starts in AAA. I actually would have no beef with his getting more than that.


You may be right that he gets more starts in AAA and maybe he should, but I'm sure he's been working on his change all season and he didn't throw one yesterday apparently. He either doesn't have that pitch right now or he doesn't believe in it enough. If it's the former, two starts in AAA won't make a difference. If it's the latter, he may need the MLB environment to convince him otherwise.

5C7D755C777F180 wrote: Glasnow not ready yet.  Yes, his command is kinda not so good at times but what gets me and it was pointed out by Walkie on the telecast was that Glasnow waved off Fryer.  Seemed that Fryer was calling for some heat when the count was a hitters count but Glasnow wanted to go to the breaking ball.  Seems that is what he was able to get over for strikes but it was almost always dead center when he threw it.  Glasnow has to learn to trust his catcher and especially one who has seen the Cards hit a ton of times this year.  That is the kind of stuff that I hope he learns from today.  Otherwise not a bad start.


On that one pitch, Fryer put down the sign, then shook his head, meaning he WANTED Glasnow to shake him off. Glasnow complied. Walk went on and on about Glasnow shaking Fryer off, but it was pretty evident that was what Fryer wanted. Walk wasn't watching the telecast, though.

Glasnow said in the pregame interview yesterday that he threw 2 changeups and had been throwing it in the minors.



So either there wasn't enough speed separation for pitch FX to see the 2 changes, or it was just missed.