About that Liriano trade...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
About that Liriano trade...
Winning pitcher AL Wild Card Game: Filthy Frankie Liriano!
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
About that Liriano trade...
What was Buck Showalter thinking? Not only did he put a pitcher with a 5.44 ERA into the game, he left him in after two hits. He was topping off at 90 mph. Oh yeah, an AL Cy Young candidate was in that Orioles bullpen too.
About that Liriano trade...
Showalter is taking some heat on sports pages for antiquated managing techniques, saying that mind set has plagued him all year. The example is only using the closer in save situations rather than high leverage situations. Sort of sounds familiar, but this was the first I'd seen a sports writer suggest it was an outdated approach.
-
Bobster21
About that Liriano trade...
65677D7B6D080 wrote: Showalter is taking some heat on sports pages for antiquated managing techniques, saying that mind set has plagued him all year. The example is only using the closer in save situations rather than high leverage situations. Sort of sounds familiar, but this was the first I'd seen a sports writer suggest it was an outdated approach.
Everyone here in Baltimore is in shock this morning at how Britton had to sit and watch Ubaldo Jimenez lose the game. This is the problem with the whole "closer" concept. The goal should be to win the game, not to get a save for your best reliever.
Everyone here in Baltimore is in shock this morning at how Britton had to sit and watch Ubaldo Jimenez lose the game. This is the problem with the whole "closer" concept. The goal should be to win the game, not to get a save for your best reliever.
About that Liriano trade...
002D20313627307073420 wrote: This has gotten pretty absurd, hasn't it? The FO and in particular, Ray Searage, gets boatloads of credit the past 3 years when we're hitting on all cylinders.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
-
Bobster21
About that Liriano trade...
4C5C5D6A7C7C701F0 wrote: This has gotten pretty absurd, hasn't it? The FO and in particular, Ray Searage, gets boatloads of credit the past 3 years when we're hitting on all cylinders.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
3 weeks after saving 17 mil in nthe Liriano deal, they extended Freese for 3 years and 16.5 mil (with a 500K buyout the 3rd year). So it looks like most or all of the Liriano savings is already spent.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
3 weeks after saving 17 mil in nthe Liriano deal, they extended Freese for 3 years and 16.5 mil (with a 500K buyout the 3rd year). So it looks like most or all of the Liriano savings is already spent.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
About that Liriano trade...
466B66777061763635040 wrote: Showalter is taking some heat on sports pages for antiquated managing techniques, saying that mind set has plagued him all year. The example is only using the closer in save situations rather than high leverage situations. Sort of sounds familiar, but this was the first I'd seen a sports writer suggest it was an outdated approach.
Everyone here in Baltimore is in shock this morning at how Britton had to sit and watch Ubaldo Jimenez lose the game. This is the problem with the whole "closer" concept. The goal should be to win the game, not to get a save for your best reliever.
This move is up there with Seattle passing the ball on the goal line in the Super Bowl. And the Orioles were playing infield in??
Everyone here in Baltimore is in shock this morning at how Britton had to sit and watch Ubaldo Jimenez lose the game. This is the problem with the whole "closer" concept. The goal should be to win the game, not to get a save for your best reliever.
This move is up there with Seattle passing the ball on the goal line in the Super Bowl. And the Orioles were playing infield in??
About that Liriano trade...
0D1D1C2B3D3D315E0 wrote: This has gotten pretty absurd, hasn't it? The FO and in particular, Ray Searage, gets boatloads of credit the past 3 years when we're hitting on all cylinders.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
I think they deserved to be ripped now just as the organization deserved to be ripped right after the Aram deal. A bad deal is a bad deal.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
I think they deserved to be ripped now just as the organization deserved to be ripped right after the Aram deal. A bad deal is a bad deal.
About that Liriano trade...
694F4E594F5F2C0 wrote: This has gotten pretty absurd, hasn't it? The FO and in particular, Ray Searage, gets boatloads of credit the past 3 years when we're hitting on all cylinders.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
I think they deserved to be ripped now just as the organization deserved to be ripped right after the Aram deal. A bad deal is a bad deal.
ARam deal was totally different. He wasn't making 13.5 million or whatever. He was a young budding star on the rise. They traded him for garbage that never helped. Liriano isn't in the same ballpark as ARam. I get the organization should be ripped on both. But, Liriano deal pales in comparison.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
I think they deserved to be ripped now just as the organization deserved to be ripped right after the Aram deal. A bad deal is a bad deal.
ARam deal was totally different. He wasn't making 13.5 million or whatever. He was a young budding star on the rise. They traded him for garbage that never helped. Liriano isn't in the same ballpark as ARam. I get the organization should be ripped on both. But, Liriano deal pales in comparison.
About that Liriano trade...
032E23323524337370410 wrote: This has gotten pretty absurd, hasn't it? The FO and in particular, Ray Searage, gets boatloads of credit the past 3 years when we're hitting on all cylinders.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
3 weeks after saving 17 mil in nthe Liriano deal, they extended Freese for 3 years and 16.5 mil (with a 500K buyout the 3rd year). So it looks like most or all of the Liriano savings is already spent.
and I totally forgot about that one. Yep, rip away.
This year, after a terrible offseason, the team wins 78 and it's not their fault. So I just want to understand. When the players play great, it's the FO. When the players play poorly, it's the players. Do I have it down?
--------------------------------------------------------
The Liriano trade was an embarrassing disaster when it took place, and it will remain an embarrassing disaster. Liriano should have been held onto.
I promise you this. David Freese isn't going to make a bit of difference in 2017 and 2018. He's a run of the mill starting infielder, who's old and has little power.
Frankie Liriano getting back to Frankie Liriano is a top tier LH starting pitcher. That is an immensely more valuable thing than a corner IF with 12-15 HR power and a .270 average. Even a 4 in 10 chance that he gets back there, is much more valuable than a corner IF with Freese's ceiling.
They "reallocated" their financial flexibility into Freese even AFTER they made this ridiculous trade. Just doubled down on the stupidity of it all.
Frankie Liriano was an enigma. He still is to this date, but in a different uniform. He was a guy that could look like a Cy Young candidate for 6.2 innings before being lifted. He couldn't go deep in games. The next time out, the Bad News Bears would club him. There was simply no consistency out of him. Does he return to Frankie of previous years here in Toronto? Have no clue to be honest. I'm sure he will have that start that makes every one of us shake our heads saying what a bad deal we made. The next time out, we see why he was dealt. What it comes down to is this ... in what way, shape or form does the FO use that savings to improve the club. If they don't use it on a key competent, then the deal is that much worse and NH/Nutting look more ridiculous with their financial flexibility comment.
It's a bad deal even if Liriano never retires another batter. The bad part was not that they moved him for a borderline pitcher. It's that they gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects to avoid paying him.
Don't get me wrong ... on the surface, the deal sucks even if those two prospects never play for Toronto. They could have been moved in separate deals to get other similar pieces that would have possibly helped here. NH is trying to sell they were buried here, so ...
Hutchinson sucks. I know. His record in Toronto two years ago was masked by the fact they scored 50,000 runs per outing for him. This trade has fail all over it, even if Liriano sucks in Toronto too. That said, and you are reading the post of someone that really has no faith in ownership or the FO to make a sound decision signing someone with that Liriano saved money that can help. Let's see what comes of it before passing judgment. Again, I'm interested to see how this $$$ will be used before ripping them, which I'm not afraid to do.
3 weeks after saving 17 mil in nthe Liriano deal, they extended Freese for 3 years and 16.5 mil (with a 500K buyout the 3rd year). So it looks like most or all of the Liriano savings is already spent.
and I totally forgot about that one. Yep, rip away.