Is this season over yet???

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:00 am

313433353D372E333A292F225B0 wrote: Can't create players out of thin air.

that's why the Pirates go to China, India, South Africa, Korea, Lithuania etc.

The bottom line is that the Pirates options are limited by the bottom line. If the major league payroll was 10 or 20 million higher, NH would have more players to seek.

Tintin · Post by **Tintin** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:08 am

7D405E535C565D7F5740515756320 wrote: While I fully understand and endorse the concept that the Pirates need to spend more on payroll, I don't understand what people want them to be spending on. I'm sure that NH will tell you that it was a mistake to sit out the 2015 offseason, that FA class was strong and the team was coming off a 98 win season. They are going to acquire guys when they identify a need, like with Nova this past offseason. The error was that they didn't identify the rotation as a need that needed to be addressed on the FA market. Assuming that they are able to move McCutchen at the deadline, a big bat will be an area of need heading in to 2018. I know people laugh off the idea that they will attempt to fill that hole, but I think they are in position to commit money and will do it when the FA market aligns with their needs.

I agree. I haven't seen anyone say where the money should have been spending. Spending just to spend is a good way to end up where the Reds are.

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:30 am

7C415F525D575C7E5641505657330 wrote: While I fully understand and endorse the concept that the Pirates need to spend more on payroll, I don't understand what people want them to be spending on. I'm sure that NH will tell you that it was a mistake to sit out the 2015 offseason, that FA class was strong and the team was coming off a 98 win season. They are going to acquire guys when they identify a need, like with Nova this past offseason. The error was that they didn't identify the rotation as a need that needed to be addressed on the FA market. Assuming that they are able to move McCutchen at the deadline, a big bat will be an area of need heading in to 2018. I know people laugh off the idea that they will attempt to fill that hole, but I think they are in position to commit money and will do it when the FA market aligns with their needs.

So the error must be that they're unable to identify needs properly. They think we have a need for AAAA middle infielders, so we stockpile them.

The market was perfectly aligned with the needs last year and they punted. There were starters available this offseason, and they went with Kuhl and Glasnow, who as of this moment have two of the worst starts to 2017 of any NL starter.

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:33 am

506D6A706D6A040 wrote: While I fully understand and endorse the concept that the Pirates need to spend more on payroll, I don't understand what people want them to be spending on. I'm sure that NH will tell you that it was a mistake to sit out the 2015 offseason, that FA class was strong and the team was coming off a 98 win season. They are going to acquire guys when they identify a need, like with Nova this past offseason. The error was that they didn't identify the rotation as a need that needed to be addressed on the FA market. Assuming that they are able to move McCutchen at the deadline, a big bat will be an area of need heading in to 2018. I know people laugh off the idea that they will attempt to fill that hole, but I think they are in position to commit money and will do it when the FA market aligns with their needs.

I agree. I haven't seen anyone say where the money should have been spending. Spending just to spend is a good way to end up where the Reds are.

nobody on this board is getting paid to figure it out.

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:34 am

We have 15% of our payroll for 2017 locked up in Bastardo, Hudson, and John Jaso.

So seriously, give us a break about team finances. They're an utter embarrassment. Defend them at your own peril

Edited.

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:38 am

193F3E293F2F5C0 wrote: While I fully understand and endorse the concept that the Pirates need to spend more on payroll, I don't understand what people want them to be spending on. I'm sure that NH will tell you that it was a mistake to sit out the 2015 offseason, that FA class was strong and the team was coming off a 98 win season. They are going to acquire guys when they identify a need, like with Nova this past offseason. The error was that they didn't identify the rotation as a need that needed to be addressed on the FA market. Assuming that they are able to move McCutchen at the deadline, a big bat will be an area of need heading in to 2018. I know people laugh off the idea that they will attempt to fill that hole, but I think they are in position to commit money and will do it when the FA market aligns with their needs.

I agree. I haven't seen anyone say where the money should have been spending. Spending just to spend is a good way to end up where the Reds are.

nobody on this board is getting paid to figure it out.

Doesn't matter. It's not nuttings fault. It's not the FOs fault. It's the FANS fault. It's more specifically my fault that the back of the rotation is the worst in the NL, and the lineup would have trouble putting up runs in an MLB Seniors circuit

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:49 pm

6A61696560617A3F394E776F666161206D610E0 wrote: When the top two starters have their worst seasons (as a Pirate), no team will survive that. None.

That doesn't exonerate them deliberately starting the season with four actual starting pitchers when everyone knows that during the course of the season you'll need 7 or more.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Wed May 17, 2017 1:30 pm

6C5E52524674575E5356595E3F0 wrote: When the top two starters have their worst seasons (as a Pirate), no team will survive that. None.

That doesn't exonerate them deliberately starting the season with four actual starting pitchers when everyone knows that during the course of the season you'll need 7 or more.

What team has their sixth and seventh starters as good as their top two? I am curious.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Wed May 17, 2017 1:36 pm

3A31393530312A6F691E273F363131703D315E0 wrote: When the top two starters have their worst seasons (as a Pirate), no team will survive that. None.

That doesn't exonerate them deliberately starting the season with four actual starting pitchers when everyone knows that during the course of the season you'll need 7 or more.

What team has their sixth and seventh starters as good as their top two? I am curious.

Not as good. ANY AT ALL. Our fifth and sixth starters were Ryan Vogelsong (who was a reliever the previous season) and a reliever we hoped to make a starter based on a few ST starts. Nobody in the minors was ready. When I say we didn't have five starters I mean that quite literally.

If I meant to discuss how good they were I'd have brought up how we were relying on Jeff Locke as a #4.

And that's before things start to go wrong, which they almost always do at some point or another. No, we couldn't have expected all of the problems with the rotation, but we could have planned for something to happen. This isn't hindsight. People were saying this before that season started, including people like me who mostly agree with what the team does.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Wed May 17, 2017 1:47 pm

My point is that no team would survive when their top two starters are terrible or have down years. Liriano was terrible. Cole had his worst year. Once that happened, it didn't matter who they had at sixth or seventh in their plans. Those guys would have never got a start over Cole or Liriano.

Are you surprised how the Mets, Cubs, Royals and Marlins are doing right now? I am not. They aren't getting the same production they got last year from their top pitchers.

The Pirates depth wasn't very good in 2016, but the poop runs down hill.