6A61696560617A3F394E776F666161206D610E0 wrote: Since Marte is out for the playoffs, shouldn't mean they should pack it in and not try to get there.
Like you pointed out (as did I), lesser teams have made it to the World Series. You have to make it to the playoffs first.
If was Huntington, I would be trying my hardest to find an outfielder right now. Or find a 1B and move Bell. I just don't know who is available this early in the season. No team will trade a significant piece right now.
What minor leaguers are better than what the Pirates have already? The Pirates have a top outfield. Other teams minor leaguers aren't beating out lesser outfielders. I just don't know, but Huntington and his scouts should have a better idea than any fan.
This team is far from a playoff caliber team. Most people recognize this. You stand alone. It's time to move on from certain players and reboot.
What would another GM do?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
What would another GM do?
Why would any of you who want to sell Cole, want to keep Nova? They're both on the same schedule.
We better get a GM who is better at trading away players with value before selling off again. NH has been fleeced when selling, more times than not.
I wouldn't sell. The problem with the Pittsburgh Pirates is that we are a passive, loser organization that is far too risk averse. The solution to how we got here is not to kick the can down the road even more.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
We better get a GM who is better at trading away players with value before selling off again. NH has been fleeced when selling, more times than not.
I wouldn't sell. The problem with the Pittsburgh Pirates is that we are a passive, loser organization that is far too risk averse. The solution to how we got here is not to kick the can down the road even more.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
What would another GM do?
474E465759230 wrote:
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
Overall, I think Huntington has been a very good trader. I do think it is hard to trade guys when others know you are rebuilding.
I wonder how Huntington will do the next time around. He certainly missed on Jason Bay, Freddie Sanchez, and Neil Walker. Bay and Sanchez were known to be available. Walker was bad, but wonder what the market was for him. Other than those three, not sure what valuable players he had to deal. Melancon was a good trade. Gonzales for LaRoche was good.
Huntington has done so much better. He has traded for some pretty good players for nothing in return. I agree with that. He has been right about moves the fans/media wanted them to make and they didn't pull the trigger.
It will be interesting if he tries to trade Marte, Kang, Polanco, or Cole. McCutchen might not be a fair judge the way he is playing now. Or if he ever dealt a top prospect like Glasnow or Meadows.
Overall, he has done well trading. He certainly deserves the opportunity if that time comes again.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
Overall, I think Huntington has been a very good trader. I do think it is hard to trade guys when others know you are rebuilding.
I wonder how Huntington will do the next time around. He certainly missed on Jason Bay, Freddie Sanchez, and Neil Walker. Bay and Sanchez were known to be available. Walker was bad, but wonder what the market was for him. Other than those three, not sure what valuable players he had to deal. Melancon was a good trade. Gonzales for LaRoche was good.
Huntington has done so much better. He has traded for some pretty good players for nothing in return. I agree with that. He has been right about moves the fans/media wanted them to make and they didn't pull the trigger.
It will be interesting if he tries to trade Marte, Kang, Polanco, or Cole. McCutchen might not be a fair judge the way he is playing now. Or if he ever dealt a top prospect like Glasnow or Meadows.
Overall, he has done well trading. He certainly deserves the opportunity if that time comes again.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
What would another GM do?
535A52434D370 wrote: Why would any of you who want to sell Cole, want to keep Nova? They're both on the same schedule.
We better get a GM who is better at trading away players with value before selling off again. NH has been fleeced when selling, more times than not.
I wouldn't sell. The problem with the Pittsburgh Pirates is that we are a passive, loser organization that is far too risk averse. The solution to how we got here is not to kick the can down the road even more.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
Maybe. I think there are not enough examples of trading "established" players to know for sure though, or to know how much he's learned/not learned since those early deals. Certainly some have been bad though.
We better get a GM who is better at trading away players with value before selling off again. NH has been fleeced when selling, more times than not.
I wouldn't sell. The problem with the Pittsburgh Pirates is that we are a passive, loser organization that is far too risk averse. The solution to how we got here is not to kick the can down the road even more.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
Maybe. I think there are not enough examples of trading "established" players to know for sure though, or to know how much he's learned/not learned since those early deals. Certainly some have been bad though.
What would another GM do?
685A56564270535A57525D5A3B0 wrote: Why would any of you who want to sell Cole, want to keep Nova? They're both on the same schedule.
We better get a GM who is better at trading away players with value before selling off again. NH has been fleeced when selling, more times than not.
I wouldn't sell. The problem with the Pittsburgh Pirates is that we are a passive, loser organization that is far too risk averse. The solution to how we got here is not to kick the can down the road even more.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
Maybe. I think there are not enough examples of trading "established" players to know for sure though, or to know how much he's learned/not learned since those early deals. Certainly some have been bad though.
I wouldn't automatically say that he shouldn't be involved in trades for a rebuild because he has made poor trades in the past.
The only reason he shouldn't be involved in planning for 2018 and beyond is if it is decided he has maxed out on what he can do with the team. Even then I'm not sure he should be fired for that given the budget limitations.
I think if he is fired it will be because Nutting or FC conclude that he has maxed out and fresh face is needed to create fan excitement and buy time for new GM to rebuild.
That can be done while keeping a low budget as new GM will say it is a challenge but one he or she wants to meet.
We better get a GM who is better at trading away players with value before selling off again. NH has been fleeced when selling, more times than not.
I wouldn't sell. The problem with the Pittsburgh Pirates is that we are a passive, loser organization that is far too risk averse. The solution to how we got here is not to kick the can down the road even more.
Besides, NH is the WRONG guy to be selling valuable players. He sells low tier "prospects" for pitchers looking to rebound. Outside of Nate McLouth and Melancon, he's either lost or got killed on everything he has sold.
He's a junk yard dealer. Good at selling junk and turning it into value. Not good at selling established players
Maybe. I think there are not enough examples of trading "established" players to know for sure though, or to know how much he's learned/not learned since those early deals. Certainly some have been bad though.
I wouldn't automatically say that he shouldn't be involved in trades for a rebuild because he has made poor trades in the past.
The only reason he shouldn't be involved in planning for 2018 and beyond is if it is decided he has maxed out on what he can do with the team. Even then I'm not sure he should be fired for that given the budget limitations.
I think if he is fired it will be because Nutting or FC conclude that he has maxed out and fresh face is needed to create fan excitement and buy time for new GM to rebuild.
That can be done while keeping a low budget as new GM will say it is a challenge but one he or she wants to meet.
What would another GM do?
He bombed Walker and gave away a ransom on Liriano. Melancon he got a solid return but should have, as he was a top closer in baseball.
There's definitely a lack of examples of him selling, but what's there is bad and doesn't show improvement over his bombs early in his career.
I don't trust him to execute a selloff effectively at all. Last time he did it, he set the club back years on the rebuild.
All the more reason I would much prefer him to move Cutch FIRST before he's allowed to start selling incredibly vital assets like Cole.
If this season ends up the way it appears likely to, in the 70 -75 win range, he wouldn't survive alot of organizations. Not after taking a 98 win team with no albatross contracts and driving it into the toilet for two seasons
There's definitely a lack of examples of him selling, but what's there is bad and doesn't show improvement over his bombs early in his career.
I don't trust him to execute a selloff effectively at all. Last time he did it, he set the club back years on the rebuild.
All the more reason I would much prefer him to move Cutch FIRST before he's allowed to start selling incredibly vital assets like Cole.
If this season ends up the way it appears likely to, in the 70 -75 win range, he wouldn't survive alot of organizations. Not after taking a 98 win team with no albatross contracts and driving it into the toilet for two seasons
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OrlandoMerced
What would another GM do?
The ransom that he gave away on Liriano are both hitting under .200 in their second go around at AA.
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OrlandoMerced
What would another GM do?
Last I checked that still have two more full years of Cole, so no reason to do anything rash with him.
It would be nice if McCutchen upped his trade value some this season, he could maybe be a valuable deadline trade chip.
It would be nice if McCutchen upped his trade value some this season, he could maybe be a valuable deadline trade chip.
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Bobster21
What would another GM do?
112C323F303A31133B2C3D3B3A5E0 wrote: The ransom that he gave away on Liriano are both hitting under .200 in their second go around at AA.
True, but Meadows is only hitting .200 right now. I think it's way too early to judge these prospects.
True, but Meadows is only hitting .200 right now. I think it's way too early to judge these prospects.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
What would another GM do?
626B63727C060 wrote: He bombed Walker and gave away a ransom on Liriano. Melancon he got a solid return but should have, as he was a top closer in baseball.
There's definitely a lack of examples of him selling, but what's there is bad and doesn't show improvement over his bombs early in his career.
I don't trust him to execute a selloff effectively at all. Last time he did it, he set the club back years on the rebuild.
All the more reason I would much prefer him to move Cutch FIRST before he's allowed to start selling incredibly vital assets like Cole.
If this season ends up the way it appears likely to, in the 70 -75 win range, he wouldn't survive alot of organizations. Not after taking a 98 win team with no albatross contracts and driving it into the toilet for two seasons
Walker was bad for sure. Huntington traded from depth, but it didn't work out at all. And Walker had a better season than Harrison which hurt.
Melancon was a great trade. Why isn't that trade getting any credit? All of these trades should have been a solid return. Isn't that why it was brought up?
Liriano and 5+ ERA was not a top player or a top valuable player. Not sure why you still think that? He was awful in 2016. Awful.
How did he set the club back years? He is the one that rebuilt it and the team made playoff runs. The system was so bare, super bare, when he took over. Of course that would take longer than usual. Littlefield did nothing for a the farm system.
Brandon Moss often gets over looked too. He turned out to be a good player for a few years after he left the Pirates. His Oakland years were the Moss Huntington traded for. Many here didn't like giving up on him, but the Pirates couldn't wait much longer for him to figure it out.
Nate McLouth was a great trade too. McLouth just won a Gold Glove and then was dealt. It was not a fan friendly move, thinking the Pirates finally found a CF or at least an outfielder of the future, but Huntington traded him. McLouth went down hill after that. The Pirates got two pitchers that helped playoff teams.
Not many examples to say Huntington can't trade big time players. He just hasn't had the opportunity. He might not get that opportunity either with the way McCutchen is sliding downhill. Bay, Walker, Melancon, McLouth, and Sanchez were probably his most valuable trade-bait players. Kind of a drop off after those guys, which he has done very well.
There's definitely a lack of examples of him selling, but what's there is bad and doesn't show improvement over his bombs early in his career.
I don't trust him to execute a selloff effectively at all. Last time he did it, he set the club back years on the rebuild.
All the more reason I would much prefer him to move Cutch FIRST before he's allowed to start selling incredibly vital assets like Cole.
If this season ends up the way it appears likely to, in the 70 -75 win range, he wouldn't survive alot of organizations. Not after taking a 98 win team with no albatross contracts and driving it into the toilet for two seasons
Walker was bad for sure. Huntington traded from depth, but it didn't work out at all. And Walker had a better season than Harrison which hurt.
Melancon was a great trade. Why isn't that trade getting any credit? All of these trades should have been a solid return. Isn't that why it was brought up?
Liriano and 5+ ERA was not a top player or a top valuable player. Not sure why you still think that? He was awful in 2016. Awful.
How did he set the club back years? He is the one that rebuilt it and the team made playoff runs. The system was so bare, super bare, when he took over. Of course that would take longer than usual. Littlefield did nothing for a the farm system.
Brandon Moss often gets over looked too. He turned out to be a good player for a few years after he left the Pirates. His Oakland years were the Moss Huntington traded for. Many here didn't like giving up on him, but the Pirates couldn't wait much longer for him to figure it out.
Nate McLouth was a great trade too. McLouth just won a Gold Glove and then was dealt. It was not a fan friendly move, thinking the Pirates finally found a CF or at least an outfielder of the future, but Huntington traded him. McLouth went down hill after that. The Pirates got two pitchers that helped playoff teams.
Not many examples to say Huntington can't trade big time players. He just hasn't had the opportunity. He might not get that opportunity either with the way McCutchen is sliding downhill. Bay, Walker, Melancon, McLouth, and Sanchez were probably his most valuable trade-bait players. Kind of a drop off after those guys, which he has done very well.