OnlyBucs

794B47475361424B46434C4B2A0 wrote: I think there's something else to this.  If all of everyone's deepest fantasies are true and it is all about money, there are lots of people other than Juan Nicasio that could have been waived. 


No, that's not accurate. Any player that ends up getting released, still has to be paid by The Pirates, unless another team picks them up.



Nicasio is having a nice season and should immediately be grabbed. Then Nutting don't have to pay his remaining salary. If they were to do the same with say Jaso or Hudson and no team picks them up, Nutting still has to pay them.


So there are no other players on the team that could be put on waivers and get picked up?




Chris Stewart would be snapped up but the Bucs need him because of Cervelli's injury.



No way anyone would pick up Hudson although I could see someone picking up Jaso to be a pinch hitter.

467478786C5E7D74797C7374150 wrote: seems like a kind of guy and "controlability" the Cardinals (or any team) should want to keep.


Leake has not had great stats this year or last year and makes a ton of money. 15 million in 2017, 17 in 2018, 16 in 2019, 15 in 2020 and 18 million in 2021 with 5 million buyout.

04363A3A2E1C3F363B3E3136570 wrote:



But don't rosters expand in like three days or so anyhow?




Rosters expand, available innings don't ...

3716030A320B10031607620 wrote:



But don't rosters expand in like three days or so anyhow?




Rosters expand, available innings don't ...


how many available innings are we talking about? Certainly not more than 20. The most innings he has pitched in any month this season is 14. I can't believe the innings are much of a factor at all. One or two extra inning games, one or two starters failing to go far in the game and those innings are there.

5F7E6B625A63786B7E6F0A0 wrote:



But don't rosters expand in like three days or so anyhow?




Rosters expand, available innings don't ...


There are endless available innings for bullpen pitchers when you aren't competing. There will be even more innings available for the pen when Glasnow gets recalled on Friday.

6F4E5B526A53485B4E5F3A0 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


It is the exact same situation.  How the Giants allegedly felt about Kontos isn't any more relevant to his market than how the Pirates feel about Nicasio. The other 29 teams set the market. In both instances, there was none. The notion than other teams would value Kontos less is highly doubtful.


But if he (Nicasio) were put on revocable waivers and pulled earlier in the month, there's no reason why the Pirates shouldn't have taken a deal from the claiming team however crummy if they were dead-set on just releasing him anyway.




There were no takers when Nicasio went on revocable waivers.



This is also about getting guys who might be in next year's bullpen innings. We how have:



Sanchez

Neverauskas

Schugel

Brault



In our bullpen. And Santana will surely be a call-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hutchinson or Holmes added to the bullpen mix with Kingham and Glasnow both slipped into a 6-man rotation. Decisions need to be made about lots of pitchers -- although Indianapolis will make the playoffs and that might slow some of the call-ups.



We just threw in the towel. Maybe this is about $600,000 in savings, but with so many arms that need MLB innings, it's also about 2018's bullpen. There were no innings left for Nicasio and especially LeBlanc.




It's complete nonsense that there were no takers the first time.  Nicasio was claimed and pulled back.  That's the whole reason why he's on irrevocable waivers right now.  He was claimed and pulled back (revoked) and no trade made.   



If he would have passed through waivers the first time, NH wouldn't have to expose him to irrevocable waivers now and would be able to give him to the Rockies or Houston for a PTBNL at the least.  It's abundantly clear Nicasio was claimed and revoked the first time. 



I dare NH to say he wasn't claimed the first time. If he even has to stones to field the question.

This is not about finding innings for other guys. How many times has Hurdle said some relievers were unavailable because of too much work? There's plenty of bullpen innings when starters rarely go more than 5 or 6 innings. And if nothing else, Nicasio could offer veteran advice to younger pitchers. This move is only about saving the $660,000 remaining on his contract. Not 6 million. $660,000. But no surprise really. Not after giving away 2 prospects to rid themselves of Liriano's contract. (And BTW-McGuire is hitting .291 with 6 HRs in just 103 ABs in AA.) So they didn't have to pay Kang and only had to pay Marte half his salary. But now they are desperate just to save enough on Nicasio to pay someone minimal salary next year. This from the team that opened the season ranked 23rd of 30 in team payroll. This is embarrassing.

Courtesy of Jeff Todd, MLBTR: 8/29/17



" MLBTR’s Steve Adams ranked him (Nicasio) second among remaining August trade candidates a few days ago. But it could well be that Nicasio was claimed and then pulled back from revocable waivers earlier this month. In that event, it makes good sense for the club to simply hope to find a taker for the salary, though it’s somewhat curious that the team did not utilize irrevocable trade waivers (rather than outright waivers) in case he does clear.



It seems reasonable to expect multiple teams to place claims on Nicasio. First dibs will go to the National League, in reverse order of the standings. Because he’s a free agent at season’s end, only clubs with strong postseason aspirations will be interested. Teams further back in the standings — the Marlins and Cardinals — could consider making a move for Nicasio, though perhaps their odds are too slim to justify the expense. The Brewers, Cubs, and Rockies (in that order) would be next in line. "





So please, let's have a little spoonful of reality for once ::)

577A77666170672724150 wrote: This is not about finding innings for other guys. How many times has Hurdle said some relievers were unavailable because of too much work? There's plenty of bullpen innings when starters rarely go more than 5 or 6 innings. And if nothing else, Nicasio could offer veteran advice to younger pitchers. This move is only about saving the $660,000 remaining on his contract. Not 6 million. $660,000. But no surprise really. Not after giving away 2 prospects to rid themselves of Liriano's contract. (And BTW-McGuire is hitting .291 with 6 HRs in just 103 ABs in AA.) So they didn't have to pay Kang and only had to pay Marte half his salary. But now they are desperate just to save enough on Nicasio to pay someone minimal salary next year. This from the team that opened the season ranked 23rd of 30 in team payroll. This is embarrassing.


It is also a courtesy to Nicasio, assuming he wants to go to a contender. I am sure players appreciate that. The player is going to get paid no matter what.

220F02131405125251600 wrote: This is not about finding innings for other guys. How many times has Hurdle said some relievers were unavailable because of too much work? There's plenty of bullpen innings when starters rarely go more than 5 or 6 innings. And if nothing else, Nicasio could offer veteran advice to younger pitchers. This move is only about saving the $660,000 remaining on his contract. Not 6 million. $660,000. But no surprise really. Not after giving away 2 prospects to rid themselves of Liriano's contract. (And BTW-McGuire is hitting .291 with 6 HRs in just 103 ABs in AA.) So they didn't have to pay Kang and only had to pay Marte half his salary. But now they are desperate just to save enough on Nicasio to pay someone minimal salary next year. This from the team that opened the season ranked 23rd of 30 in team payroll. This is embarrassing.


Yup. It's as simple as it seems.



This was done to not have to pay Nicasio his remaining salary. A small amount of money, yes, but it's a small amount that Bob Nutting would rather keep give to someone else.