NH won't trade him, nor will he blow it up unless his mindset has changed. I'm all for trading the vets, cutting S. Rod and letting the kids earn some valuable experience the rest of this year.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
Neal speaks
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
Neal speaks
1007081001150C01140C600 wrote: NH won't trade him, nor will he blow it up unless his mindset has changed. I'm all for trading the vets, cutting S. Rod and letting the kids earn some valuable experience the rest of this year.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
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Bobster21
Neal speaks
101701090710575B22050F030B0E4C010D0F620 wrote: NH won't trade him, nor will he blow it up unless his mindset has changed. I'm all for trading the vets, cutting S. Rod and letting the kids earn some valuable experience the rest of this year.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Neal speaks
4D606D7C7B6A7D3D3E0F0 wrote: NH won't trade him, nor will he blow it up unless his mindset has changed. I'm all for trading the vets, cutting S. Rod and letting the kids earn some valuable experience the rest of this year.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
For the most part the Pirate FO needs to be very thankful- they could be getting absolutely Pounded by the press. Most of the stuff Said is barely covered. This comment from Neal, about trying to win 78-82 games, such a comment would destroy many GMs. The admission of such a minimal standard should be unacceptable in any organization.
I think we’re all numb: Neal’s statement should cause a total revolt among all fans.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
For the most part the Pirate FO needs to be very thankful- they could be getting absolutely Pounded by the press. Most of the stuff Said is barely covered. This comment from Neal, about trying to win 78-82 games, such a comment would destroy many GMs. The admission of such a minimal standard should be unacceptable in any organization.
I think we’re all numb: Neal’s statement should cause a total revolt among all fans.
Neal speaks
517C71606776612122130 wrote: NH won't trade him, nor will he blow it up unless his mindset has changed. I'm all for trading the vets, cutting S. Rod and letting the kids earn some valuable experience the rest of this year.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
I know my words will have the chance of being flipped around and I'll be called an apologist, but here goes anyway.
I think people spend waayyy too much time parsing every single word NH says and then trying to criticize him for it. At the end of the day, he has a very unenviable job. He is expected to try and field a competent MLB team with a payroll of between $80-100 million. Competitors are outspending him 2-1. He has long said that his philosophy is that they can continue to maintain a winning team without ever complety reloading. You can disagree with his philosophy, but he has continued to abide by it. As part of that strategy, they will lean heavy on the minor league system. They will not sign people out of many arbitration years. They won't pursue higher name FAs. They will trade guys they can't sign in their later arbitration years. They will do these things to maintain the payroll in the above mentioned realm and not go into the tank on the field.
The reality is, that approach, if executed well (and I think that point is really up for debate) is probably going to produce .500 seasons over the long haul. If you put things together you can make a WC. Often you won't but you will be competitive most of the year. As long as the guys you are paying are producing at or above their salary, being competitive is possible. That is what has pretty much happened over the years. They had three good years far surpassing expectations. Then these last three years where many of the same players have underperformed and they didn't do a great job of finding value players to add around them. The have been a sub-average team but not uncompetitive.
I think their approach of always staying competitive and not doing reloads was for two reasons. One, it kept the payroll in the spot where Nutting demanded. Secondly, I think they believed they would sustain competitiveness to always have a compelling product on the field to fill PNC Park. They wanted to win championships. I really do believe that. They still do. IT just has to be within their perimeters.
For much of this season, they have been in a competitive place. The way they got there was crazy as they played super well and then super bad until the played themselves into the spot they are now. The surprising part was that the fans got pissed over the off season and didn't buy into that competitive team. Now that they are pretty much out of it, the fans are really gone.
I think they are going to have to reevaluate their approach. The anger of fans over the winter and then into the spring was surprising. Personally, I think the general fan response about the trades is naive and pathetic. I get the desire to keep Cole and McCutchen but that was never going to happen. It isn't going to happen with any other player. I am still shocked that fans were surprised by those trades. The vitriol was stupid. I may not feel the same way, but it seem that is this fan base is going to operate and the FO has to figure out how to deal with it.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
I know my words will have the chance of being flipped around and I'll be called an apologist, but here goes anyway.
I think people spend waayyy too much time parsing every single word NH says and then trying to criticize him for it. At the end of the day, he has a very unenviable job. He is expected to try and field a competent MLB team with a payroll of between $80-100 million. Competitors are outspending him 2-1. He has long said that his philosophy is that they can continue to maintain a winning team without ever complety reloading. You can disagree with his philosophy, but he has continued to abide by it. As part of that strategy, they will lean heavy on the minor league system. They will not sign people out of many arbitration years. They won't pursue higher name FAs. They will trade guys they can't sign in their later arbitration years. They will do these things to maintain the payroll in the above mentioned realm and not go into the tank on the field.
The reality is, that approach, if executed well (and I think that point is really up for debate) is probably going to produce .500 seasons over the long haul. If you put things together you can make a WC. Often you won't but you will be competitive most of the year. As long as the guys you are paying are producing at or above their salary, being competitive is possible. That is what has pretty much happened over the years. They had three good years far surpassing expectations. Then these last three years where many of the same players have underperformed and they didn't do a great job of finding value players to add around them. The have been a sub-average team but not uncompetitive.
I think their approach of always staying competitive and not doing reloads was for two reasons. One, it kept the payroll in the spot where Nutting demanded. Secondly, I think they believed they would sustain competitiveness to always have a compelling product on the field to fill PNC Park. They wanted to win championships. I really do believe that. They still do. IT just has to be within their perimeters.
For much of this season, they have been in a competitive place. The way they got there was crazy as they played super well and then super bad until the played themselves into the spot they are now. The surprising part was that the fans got pissed over the off season and didn't buy into that competitive team. Now that they are pretty much out of it, the fans are really gone.
I think they are going to have to reevaluate their approach. The anger of fans over the winter and then into the spring was surprising. Personally, I think the general fan response about the trades is naive and pathetic. I get the desire to keep Cole and McCutchen but that was never going to happen. It isn't going to happen with any other player. I am still shocked that fans were surprised by those trades. The vitriol was stupid. I may not feel the same way, but it seem that is this fan base is going to operate and the FO has to figure out how to deal with it.
Neal speaks
524F6B6967020 wrote: NH won't trade him, nor will he blow it up unless his mindset has changed. I'm all for trading the vets, cutting S. Rod and letting the kids earn some valuable experience the rest of this year.
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
I know my words will have the chance of being flipped around and I'll be called an apologist, but here goes anyway.
I think people spend waayyy too much time parsing every single word NH says and then trying to criticize him for it. At the end of the day, he has a very unenviable job. He is expected to try and field a competent MLB team with a payroll of between $80-100 million. Competitors are outspending him 2-1. He has long said that his philosophy is that they can continue to maintain a winning team without ever complety reloading. You can disagree with his philosophy, but he has continued to abide by it. As part of that strategy, they will lean heavy on the minor league system. They will not sign people out of many arbitration years. They won't pursue higher name FAs. They will trade guys they can't sign in their later arbitration years. They will do these things to maintain the payroll in the above mentioned realm and not go into the tank on the field.
The reality is, that approach, if executed well (and I think that point is really up for debate) is probably going to produce .500 seasons over the long haul. If you put things together you can make a WC. Often you won't but you will be competitive most of the year. As long as the guys you are paying are producing at or above their salary, being competitive is possible. That is what has pretty much happened over the years. They had three good years far surpassing expectations. Then these last three years where many of the same players have underperformed and they didn't do a great job of finding value players to add around them. The have been a sub-average team but not uncompetitive.
I think their approach of always staying competitive and not doing reloads was for two reasons. One, it kept the payroll in the spot where Nutting demanded. [highlight]Secondly, I think they believed they would sustain competitiveness to always have a compelling product on the field to fill PNC Park.[/highlight] They wanted to win championships. I really do believe that. They still do. IT just has to be within their perimeters.
[highlight]For much of this season, they have been in a competitive place. [/highlight] The way they got there was crazy as they played super well and then super bad until the played themselves into the spot they are now. The surprising part was that the fans got pissed over the off season and didn't buy into that competitive team. Now that they are pretty much out of it, the fans are really gone.
I think they are going to have to reevaluate their approach. The anger of fans over the winter and then into the spring was surprising. Personally, I think the general fan response about the trades is naive and pathetic. I get the desire to keep Cole and McCutchen but that was never going to happen. It isn't going to happen with any other player. I am still shocked that fans were surprised by those trades. The vitriol was stupid. I may not feel the same way, but it seem that is this fan base is going to operate and the FO has to figure out how to deal with it.
good post, if they don't re-evaluate their approach they are stupid (and I don't believe they are). Attendance has been going down for 3 straight years and this year's attendance may be the lowest since 2010. It could be that they felt after 2 straight bad seasons that this year their luck would turn or maybe they had a lot of confidence in Musgrove and Moran to fill holes in team.
I am not sure fans were surprised by trades of Cole and Cutch as disappointed in the return (whether that is realistic or not is another matter).
Not sure they have played for much of this season at a competitive pace. The team was in first place on May 17 by May 27 they were 5 games back. They were 6 back on June 18 and are 12 now (which will change depending on Brew Crew tonight)
But CH would have a heart attack and it's not in the "reload" or the drive for 75 plan to keep the Bucs "competitive. UNFORTUNATELY ! >:(
If this is the case, we can expect years of this same purposeless and frustrating season. Maybe the biggest problem the FO has is this inability/unwillingness to invest into the team and build around the core while also being unwilling to blow it up to rebuild around maximizing its own plan. Why Neal can’t just say “ws’re Rebuilding” , i don’t know. But I do know the path they are currently on is destroying the organization.
I think it's a very sad state of affairs for the franchise. I don't say this out of anger or with any axe to grind. It's just how things are now. NH has come out and effectively admitted there is no plan to win. How else can we interpret his strategy to put together what looks like a 78-82 win team and hope to get lucky? And this is from the guy whose chief job seems to be spinmeister. He can't even spin it anymore. They painted themselves into a corner with the previous spin that the reason they didn't go all in during those 3 winning years was because their plan was to have a team that would be competitive each year. Now in the 3rd year of a new losing streak, it's hard for them to say they are going to blow it all up and do a total rebuild because that admits the previous plan by the same people was a failure and they're going to try it all over again and hope this time they get it right even tho the last time they didn't. Meanwhile, the fan base has already seen too much evidence that TBMTIB can't be trusted and that greater revenue (like in 2015) only means lower payroll and less talent. Now they tell us they can't even afford reclamation projects anymore.
The new strategy seems to be to not promise the fans anything. A team that falls a few games short of 78 wins won't be a disappointment because that's all we were told to expect anyway. And if they get lucky and win a couple more than 82 and eke into a 2nd WC spot, TBMTIB can pat itself on the back. And if 84-85 wins isn't enough, oh well, it's not their fault too many teams were better. If they promise a total rebuild, they only once again set themselves up to look bad when they develop a core but refuse to put out the necessary money to add key players to fill remaining holes. So here's what we've been told: they're not rebuilding and they expect to compete if that can be done by an overachieving team that was only expected to win 78-82 games. Like it or not, this is all we are being offered for the foreseeable future.
I know my words will have the chance of being flipped around and I'll be called an apologist, but here goes anyway.
I think people spend waayyy too much time parsing every single word NH says and then trying to criticize him for it. At the end of the day, he has a very unenviable job. He is expected to try and field a competent MLB team with a payroll of between $80-100 million. Competitors are outspending him 2-1. He has long said that his philosophy is that they can continue to maintain a winning team without ever complety reloading. You can disagree with his philosophy, but he has continued to abide by it. As part of that strategy, they will lean heavy on the minor league system. They will not sign people out of many arbitration years. They won't pursue higher name FAs. They will trade guys they can't sign in their later arbitration years. They will do these things to maintain the payroll in the above mentioned realm and not go into the tank on the field.
The reality is, that approach, if executed well (and I think that point is really up for debate) is probably going to produce .500 seasons over the long haul. If you put things together you can make a WC. Often you won't but you will be competitive most of the year. As long as the guys you are paying are producing at or above their salary, being competitive is possible. That is what has pretty much happened over the years. They had three good years far surpassing expectations. Then these last three years where many of the same players have underperformed and they didn't do a great job of finding value players to add around them. The have been a sub-average team but not uncompetitive.
I think their approach of always staying competitive and not doing reloads was for two reasons. One, it kept the payroll in the spot where Nutting demanded. [highlight]Secondly, I think they believed they would sustain competitiveness to always have a compelling product on the field to fill PNC Park.[/highlight] They wanted to win championships. I really do believe that. They still do. IT just has to be within their perimeters.
[highlight]For much of this season, they have been in a competitive place. [/highlight] The way they got there was crazy as they played super well and then super bad until the played themselves into the spot they are now. The surprising part was that the fans got pissed over the off season and didn't buy into that competitive team. Now that they are pretty much out of it, the fans are really gone.
I think they are going to have to reevaluate their approach. The anger of fans over the winter and then into the spring was surprising. Personally, I think the general fan response about the trades is naive and pathetic. I get the desire to keep Cole and McCutchen but that was never going to happen. It isn't going to happen with any other player. I am still shocked that fans were surprised by those trades. The vitriol was stupid. I may not feel the same way, but it seem that is this fan base is going to operate and the FO has to figure out how to deal with it.
good post, if they don't re-evaluate their approach they are stupid (and I don't believe they are). Attendance has been going down for 3 straight years and this year's attendance may be the lowest since 2010. It could be that they felt after 2 straight bad seasons that this year their luck would turn or maybe they had a lot of confidence in Musgrove and Moran to fill holes in team.
I am not sure fans were surprised by trades of Cole and Cutch as disappointed in the return (whether that is realistic or not is another matter).
Not sure they have played for much of this season at a competitive pace. The team was in first place on May 17 by May 27 they were 5 games back. They were 6 back on June 18 and are 12 now (which will change depending on Brew Crew tonight)
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Bobster21
Neal speaks
I think what so many of us are trying to comprehend is how TBMTIB went from telling us their goal was to build a championship team and to that end would spend when the time was right, to where we are now. Building toward a championship has now been defined as striving for a team that can play close to .500 ball and might at some point greatly overachieve. And the right time never came; not even with record attendance. Regardless of whether this is a viable plan or not, fans are understandably upset at what appears a walking back of prior promises (even if TBMTIB was coy enough to have meant nothing more than this all along). The Pirates have not only disappointed their fans but they've also lost their trust. And the plan to overachieve is not likely to happen anytime soon so it won't be easy to get the fans back.