Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
I will always be thankful for Hurdle getting the team to a winning record. I think he was the right guy to get that done. However, I don't think he is the right guy to get this team to being a real contender. They have played undisciplined for several years with numerous base running and fielding miscues. They are not mentally sharp and there have been very little consequences for mistakes. I was disappointed with the extension. It is one thing to be loose and have fun but Freese hit the nail on the head during spring training. There has to be some urgency to win. Hurdle wants to win but I do not think he has the urgency that is needed.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
09252D2A2106312737440 wrote: I am ecstatic that the team was able to sweep the Brewers in a 5 game series. Nearly every player on the team contributed at one point or another in the wins.
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
I agree with you regarding Tanner Anderson. I was scratching my head on that one. However, every move Hurdle made this last week basically resulted in a win. I would not have wanted Holmes to start that Saturday game against the Brewers after he was lit up in LA; but he pitched 6 shutout innings. With the exception of the Tanner Anderson call; Hurdle managed the bullpen perfectly.
What I question more is why did NH bring up Tanner Anderson in the first place? We drop Meadows for him????
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
I agree with you regarding Tanner Anderson. I was scratching my head on that one. However, every move Hurdle made this last week basically resulted in a win. I would not have wanted Holmes to start that Saturday game against the Brewers after he was lit up in LA; but he pitched 6 shutout innings. With the exception of the Tanner Anderson call; Hurdle managed the bullpen perfectly.
What I question more is why did NH bring up Tanner Anderson in the first place? We drop Meadows for him????
-
DemDog
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
14313232270C31393B2C5E0 wrote: I am ecstatic that the team was able to sweep the Brewers in a 5 game series. Nearly every player on the team contributed at one point or another in the wins.
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
I agree with you regarding Tanner Anderson. I was scratching my head on that one. [highlight]However, every move Hurdle made this last week basically resulted in a win[/highlight]. I would not have wanted Holmes to start that Saturday game against the Brewers after he was lit up in LA; but he pitched 6 shutout innings. With the exception of the Tanner Anderson call; Hurdle managed the bullpen perfectly.
What I question more is why did NH bring up Tanner Anderson in the first place? We drop Meadows for him????
Next thing you know they will either retire Clint's # or put a statue of him behind the bullpen! :'(
I had a chance to watch all 5 games on TV, first pitch to last pitch, and still find it hard to believe that the team overcame adversity 3 innings in a row to win the final game. In games 1-4 the team virtually had the lead through-out the game and in some contests, it really was a question to see if they could hang on to win. They did, which set the table for Sunday.
Sunday's win was a classic. There was a reason Steve Blass (who I did not hear) and Greg Brown were screaming. The Pirates should not have won that game after what happened in the 8th, but they did. The pouring rain added to the drama and perhaps allow the (very) slow footed Moran to score when Kratz couldn't handle the throw home.
Now for my rant, that is the only thing that detracted from an unbelievable win. From where I sit, Hurdle managed like he was comfortable with winning the first 4 games. Not only did he not rise to the moment, he failed to embrace the genuine enthusiasm and grit that the players on the team were showing.
First, in the 8th, anyone could see that Musgrove, who had pitched brilliantly to that point, was out of gas (105 pitches). He not only walks one, but walks two to load the bases in a 2-2 game. While many in the pen had thrown a few innings over the past several days, there is a 4 game break coming up for everyone but Vasquez. What happens, Musgrove is rocked by a 3 run triple. Rodriguez, who only needed to get one out, then enters the game and efficiently dispatches of the hitter. Come on Clint, let's manage to win today.
The Bucs start to mount a comeback in the bottom of the 8th, survive an inning from Brault (who benefited greatly from the umps not overruling an out call at 3rd), and then actually manage to dramatically score 2 in the bottom of the 9th to tie the game. The whole dug-out was on fire!
So, what does Hurdle do for the top of the 10th in a 5-5 game. He brings in Tanner Anderson, who was completely lit up by the Dodgers, who was just recalled, and who was appearing in his 2nd big league game. Unbelievable to me. Santana or Crick couldn't go an inning. Williams also was sitting in the pen and it was announced that he was available to pitch. When Anderson was giving up a run the TV camera showed Clint Hurdle looking at the roster in the dug-out with an expression of like geez - what am I to do. I only have a roster with 6 pitchers (Crick, Santana, Vasquez, Feliz, Glasnow and Williams) who haven't pitched yet, I really have no option but to pitch Tanner Anderson. By some miracle, Anderson only gives up one. That said, a team that clawed their way back from a 3 run deficit in the 8th and 9th to tie the game (and against all-star relievers and the Brewers' closer) suddenly had to find a way to score at least one more run.
The bottom of the 10th was magical. The excitement shown by the Pirate players was real as they joyfully embraced Bell. I know he didn't hit a home run that knocked out the lights in the stadium, but with the pouring rain it was as close to a "The Natural" moment that you may see, even though it may mean little going forward.
So --- why rant. This game symbolized all of the reasons that I want the Pirates to fire Hurdle. The players realize where things are at. There are few fannies in the seats, they have been written off as dead weight (including by me), they are playing for pride, and they just did something that is very rare; they swept a 5 game series, including both games of a Double Header, and they knocked out the team that had been in first. Their manager, however, didn't give the players the respect that they deserved and didn't do everything he could to manage to win. Clint, didn't you see that the players knew that 4 wins wasn't good enough,? Sadly, you failed to recognize how much they wanted number 5.
Lastly, Clint chose to save all of the pitchers yesterday, but had little problem using Vasquez to pitch in most games this past week. Clearly, Hurdle is not the only reason the team has less than a .500 record, but from where I sit, he sure is a contributor. Hurdle should be fired now!
I agree with you regarding Tanner Anderson. I was scratching my head on that one. [highlight]However, every move Hurdle made this last week basically resulted in a win[/highlight]. I would not have wanted Holmes to start that Saturday game against the Brewers after he was lit up in LA; but he pitched 6 shutout innings. With the exception of the Tanner Anderson call; Hurdle managed the bullpen perfectly.
What I question more is why did NH bring up Tanner Anderson in the first place? We drop Meadows for him????
Next thing you know they will either retire Clint's # or put a statue of him behind the bullpen! :'(
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
Hey Jolly Roger
Not trying to pick a major disagreement, but my main point is that Clint failed to rise to the occasion in the last game of the series that the Bucs also needed to win and that the team had done more than anyone should have expected in trying to rally to win.
Also, just because Tanner Anderson was on the roster didn't mean that Hurdle had to pitch him. For example --- Meadows was on the roster for nearly all of last week and didn't start any of the games. Stallings barely saw action (until the DH), even though he was on the roster for nearly 2 weeks. Moroff recently received a start or two, but his butt was largely planted on the bench. And, when Holmes was up last time, he pitched all of 2 innings or so in 2 weeks.
With respect to Holmes getting the start, I believe he is the only pitcher at AAA who really warranted another opportunity to start a game in the majors. And, they surely should not have considered either Brault or Glasnow for a start. Holmes also had been pitching really well at AAA until the Bucs let him rot on the bench in the majors.
Where I sit, Hurdle didn't act the way a manager who wanted to (miraculously) sweep the Brewers should have acted.
Not trying to pick a major disagreement, but my main point is that Clint failed to rise to the occasion in the last game of the series that the Bucs also needed to win and that the team had done more than anyone should have expected in trying to rally to win.
Also, just because Tanner Anderson was on the roster didn't mean that Hurdle had to pitch him. For example --- Meadows was on the roster for nearly all of last week and didn't start any of the games. Stallings barely saw action (until the DH), even though he was on the roster for nearly 2 weeks. Moroff recently received a start or two, but his butt was largely planted on the bench. And, when Holmes was up last time, he pitched all of 2 innings or so in 2 weeks.
With respect to Holmes getting the start, I believe he is the only pitcher at AAA who really warranted another opportunity to start a game in the majors. And, they surely should not have considered either Brault or Glasnow for a start. Holmes also had been pitching really well at AAA until the Bucs let him rot on the bench in the majors.
Where I sit, Hurdle didn't act the way a manager who wanted to (miraculously) sweep the Brewers should have acted.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Brewers@Bucs 7/15 Sweep this series Game Thread...
08242C2B2007302636450 wrote: Hey Jolly Roger
Not trying to pick a major disagreement, but my main point is that Clint failed to rise to the occasion in the last game of the series that the Bucs also needed to win and that the team had done more than anyone should have expected in trying to rally to win.
Also, just because Tanner Anderson was on the roster didn't mean that Hurdle had to pitch him. For example --- Meadows was on the roster for nearly all of last week and didn't start any of the games. Stallings barely saw action (until the DH), even though he was on the roster for nearly 2 weeks. Moroff recently received a start or two, but his butt was largely planted on the bench. And, when Holmes was up last time, he pitched all of 2 innings or so in 2 weeks.
With respect to Holmes getting the start, I believe he is the only pitcher at AAA who really warranted another opportunity to start a game in the majors. And, they surely should not have considered either Brault or Glasnow for a start. Holmes also had been pitching really well at AAA until the Bucs let him rot on the bench in the majors.
Where I sit, Hurdle didn't act the way a manager who wanted to (miraculously) sweep the Brewers should have acted.
Like I said; I agree with you on Anderson. I was expecting Crick and was annoyed when Anderson came in. I happen to like Hurdle. Whether you agree or not; fact is he manages very similar to Jim Leyland. Leyland also would run out a “Sunday” lineup and used his bench extensively. Hurdle is not the problem.
The problem which I have been preaching long before many of the posters here have chimed in is Nutting. He has handcuffed his GM from giving Hurdle a deep enough roster of quality players.
Not trying to pick a major disagreement, but my main point is that Clint failed to rise to the occasion in the last game of the series that the Bucs also needed to win and that the team had done more than anyone should have expected in trying to rally to win.
Also, just because Tanner Anderson was on the roster didn't mean that Hurdle had to pitch him. For example --- Meadows was on the roster for nearly all of last week and didn't start any of the games. Stallings barely saw action (until the DH), even though he was on the roster for nearly 2 weeks. Moroff recently received a start or two, but his butt was largely planted on the bench. And, when Holmes was up last time, he pitched all of 2 innings or so in 2 weeks.
With respect to Holmes getting the start, I believe he is the only pitcher at AAA who really warranted another opportunity to start a game in the majors. And, they surely should not have considered either Brault or Glasnow for a start. Holmes also had been pitching really well at AAA until the Bucs let him rot on the bench in the majors.
Where I sit, Hurdle didn't act the way a manager who wanted to (miraculously) sweep the Brewers should have acted.
Like I said; I agree with you on Anderson. I was expecting Crick and was annoyed when Anderson came in. I happen to like Hurdle. Whether you agree or not; fact is he manages very similar to Jim Leyland. Leyland also would run out a “Sunday” lineup and used his bench extensively. Hurdle is not the problem.
The problem which I have been preaching long before many of the posters here have chimed in is Nutting. He has handcuffed his GM from giving Hurdle a deep enough roster of quality players.