OnlyBucs

There is a clear path to winning ... but unfortunately it's not with this ownership. That's the bottom line.



If Nutting ever sold, and if the Pirates could ever have "normal" ownership that was more interesting in winning than profits, then the Pirates could compete and would have just as good a shot at winning as anyone not named Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs.



But as long as the directive from upstairs is "don't spend money, just make money," then you're right ... there is no clear path to winning.

mlbtr is now reporting that Sonny Gray is going to the Reds and likely is signing an extension with them.

The Red gave up their seventh ranked prospect (MLB.com) and a competitive balance pick.



Would it have been worth it for the Bucs to send Craig or Kramer (6/7 OBN) and a competitive balance pick? I don't know enough about our prospects or Gray to really have an opinion.

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?p ... position=P



I'm not sure Sonny Gray would be worth dealing a prospect for, I think his 2014 and 15 will prove to be the outliers.



The Reds remind me of the Padres a couple of years ago when they dealt a bunch of prospects and took on salaries to add a bunch of big name veterans to their team. Then proceeded to be mediocre and sell them all off. The Reds will be better, but they are turning a bad team into a mediocre team.

Totally agree, Orlando. Sonny Gray is not the answer, especially giving him an extension. He will be pitching in a ballpark that is very similar to Yankee Stadium (small). Also, Puig and Kemp have also had issues. I have stated before, let's wait for spring training to begin. If nothing is done to improve the current roster, then I will be concerned.

5469777A757F74567E69787E7F1B0 wrote: https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?p ... position=P



I'm not sure Sonny Gray would be worth dealing a prospect for, I think his 2014 and 15 will prove to be the outliers.



The Reds remind me of the Padres a couple of years ago when they dealt a bunch of prospects and took on salaries to add a bunch of big name veterans to their team. Then proceeded to be mediocre and sell them all off. The Reds will be better, but they are turning a bad team into a mediocre team.
Gray was pretty good as recently as 2017?

51504B5A4C0C0B3F0 wrote: https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?p ... position=P



I'm not sure Sonny Gray would be worth dealing a prospect for, I think his 2014 and 15 will prove to be the outliers.



The Reds remind me of the Padres a couple of years ago when they dealt a bunch of prospects and took on salaries to add a bunch of big name veterans to their team. Then proceeded to be mediocre and sell them all off. The Reds will be better, but they are turning a bad team into a mediocre team.
Gray was pretty good as recently as 2017?


In some ways. His FIP was almost 5.00. That indicates he was pretty lucky.

I would rather they had signed Morton to a short term deal than trade away a prospect for Gray.

322F0B0907620 wrote: https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?p ... position=P



I'm not sure Sonny Gray would be worth dealing a prospect for, I think his 2014 and 15 will prove to be the outliers.



The Reds remind me of the Padres a couple of years ago when they dealt a bunch of prospects and took on salaries to add a bunch of big name veterans to their team. Then proceeded to be mediocre and sell them all off. The Reds will be better, but they are turning a bad team into a mediocre team.
Gray was pretty good as recently as 2017?


In some ways.  His FIP was almost 5.00.  That indicates he was pretty lucky.


Not for the entire season though. FIP with the Yankees was 4.87, but with the A's it was 3.25. His season totals were pretty good.

His home/road splits last season were pretty big. (6.98/3.17 ERA, 5.98/2.65 FIP) I think a change of scenery will be good for him.