OnlyBucs

476160776171020 wrote: They will play 162 games.[highlight] They have played four.  There is no way to draw any long term conclusions about this team right now.  The knee jerk reaction of fans in baseball...  It's football mentality in baseball.[/highlight]



The hitting is bad, but they have had 2 guys (Shuck & Reyes) getting big at bats that won't even be on the MLB roster next month.  When Polanco and Chisenhall get back, those two won't be getting important at bats.  It sucks they are here now, but they are literally the 3rd and 4 options.  Plus, they have played a strangely high amount because of issues with Marte/Dickerson and the extra innings.  Those things even out beyond four games.



The bullpen has been a dumpster fire so far.  To suggest that this will be what happens all year is foolishness.  It may, but it is unlikely.  It seems like people want to blame Hurdle for the bullpen uses in these last two losses.  I see that.  You can always second guess.  But the reality is, these guys in the bullpen have a job to do.  Many of them have proven they can successfully do it.  Rodriguez and Kela were the two that really cost them these last two games.  Last year, they were both fantastic.  I suspect they will come around and return to that form.



These two games have sucked.  They have been incredible frustrating to watch and I have felt like I wasted my time watching them.  And, these 4 games count as 2.5% of the season.  To draw sweeping generalizations about the whole season from 2.5% of the games seems irresponsible.


this is exactly right.  The team has started off 12-5 a couple times and ended up close to last place.  Its doubtful this a good or great team based on players past performance and expectations but it is too early to tell. 



Its too bad the Bucs are at their third option in right field already and Pablo Reyes showed last year he deserved a shot and he is getting it.  We'll probably know for certain after another 30 or 40 games if Gonzo is going to be an adequate shortstop. This Pirates team can’t afford a bad start they aren’t good enough to overcome it. We’ll see how things go this weekend agsinst the Reds you better at least earn a split in this 4 game series because if you do worse then that your staring at a 2-6 or 1-7 start with an 8 game road trip coming up next which is the last thing this team needs.

240203140212610 wrote: This is just a team full of question marks and average players on the field. For Coonelly Huntington and Nutting to say on opening day this team is full of talent and core players is a complete joke.


one of the issues with needing to win games by relying on 3 or more relievers is that all the relievers are not going to be going to be great each game.  You need to have big enough leads to withstand a reliever giving up a couple runs.



3 run lead in the 7th shouldn't be lost very often.  3 run lead in the first is not nearly as safe.


I agree. Hurdle's philosophy (like most managers) is that the pitching for any game should be a shared effort between the starter and the BP. The starter is limited to 100 pitches, which might get him thru the 6th. If the starter doesn't get to 100 pitches, he could go maybe 7 but no more because the BP is expected to pitch the rest regardless of the effectiveness of the starter. Hurdle sees nothing wrong with the formula because it makes sense as long as the BP always does its job. Unfortunately, relievers are often inconsistent from 1 year to the next. And even the best occasionally have a bad game and you never know when that's going to occur.



So a more reasonable plan would be to let an effective pitcher continue to pitch, especially if pitch count is not an issue. When you remove an effective pitcher, you are doing the other team a favor. You are bringing someone else in with the hope that he can continue the effectiveness of the pitcher he's replacing. Monday, Crick pitched a perfect 6th on 12 pitches including 2 Ks. But for the 7th, Hurdle replaced him with Rodriguez and hoped Rodriguez could be as effective as Crick. The result was a 3-run 7th as the Bucs snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Last night Taillon was very effective thru 7 innings on only 85 pitches. Hurdle's formula says Taillon's work is done and now it's up to Kela and Vazquez to each pitch an inning as effectively as what Taillon has done. But Kela blows it and they go on to lose another one. There's something very wrong with a strategy that says if the other team can't hit your pitcher, you'll replace him and give them a chance against someone different. Hurdle manages like most other managers. But he desn't have the talent that most other managers have and he needs to think outside the box, even if it requires using common sense instead of a rigid formula.

One thing I noticed in yesterday's game is that the Cardinal pitchers had no concern with Marte at the plate. They went right after him and threw him fastballs down the middle. Marte laid an egg.



Marte must be a force if this team is to have any chance of success. Yes, it is only 4 games into the season, but he has not looked very good to date.

I don't think Marte is seeing the ball very well right now. He swings at a lot of pitches out of the zone.

Marte has looked awful these first few games he needs to pick it up big time or like you said this offense is really gonna have problems. He has to be better period no excuses.

I see the Yankees have placed Troy Tulowitzki on the IL. He had 13 at bats before having an issue. Maybe NH did know something.

25273D3B2D480 wrote: I don't think Marte is seeing the ball very well right now. He swings at a lot of pitches out of the zone.


Marte has always done this. He and Bell have looked really bad at the plate.

7D604446482D0 wrote: They will play 162 games.  They have played four.  There is no way to draw any long term conclusions about this team right now.  The knee jerk reaction of fans in baseball...  It's football mentality in baseball.



The hitting is bad, but they have had 2 guys (Shuck & Reyes) getting big at bats that won't even be on the MLB roster next month.  When Polanco and Chisenhall get back, those two won't be getting important at bats.  It sucks they are here now, but they are literally the 3rd and 4 options.  Plus, they have played a strangely high amount because of issues with Marte/Dickerson and the extra innings.  Those things even out beyond four games.



The bullpen has been a dumpster fire so far.  To suggest that this will be what happens all year is foolishness.  It may, but it is unlikely.  It seems like people want to blame Hurdle for the bullpen uses in these last two losses.  I see that.  You can always second guess.  But the reality is, these guys in the bullpen have a job to do.  Many of them have proven they can successfully do it.  Rodriguez and Kela were the two that really cost them these last two games.  Last year, they were both fantastic.  I suspect they will come around and return to that form.



These two games have sucked.  They have been incredible frustrating to watch and I have felt like I wasted my time watching them.  And, these 4 games count as 2.5% of the season.  To draw sweeping generalizations about the whole season from 2.5% of the games seems irresponsible.
No one should draw a conclusion on Gonzalez, Reyes, Kang, Newman, Moran, Burdi, Brault, Kingham, and I haven't. However it's, pretty obvious with Hurdle we've watched him for years nothing going to change for the better. Bell he was awful an entire year last year while batting 4th most of the year. Some of the older players like Cervelli, Archer have to be re-evaluated constantly as they could be declining like we all do with age. However it's, pretty obvious our manager is a dinosaur we've watched him for years and nothings going to change with him. Josh Bell he was awful an entire year last year while batting 4th most of the year, and I see no signs of a resurgence in fact quite the opposite, he is not getting good swings on anything. I saw a very good sign from Moran last night when he almost came out of his shoes swinging at the only pitch he got that was hit-able, I would replace Bell with Moran immediately. Liriano, Cabrera, Shuck are taking up slots I would rather see younger players, especially Jason Martin for Cabrera, Polanco should replace Shuck, Liriano is just awful how much more do we need to see of that guy.



What seems to be lost here is we just lost 2 games that you can never get back that were very winnable with a manager who understands his team and players. Yes the players didn't perform, but the manager has to put them in the best position to win and that didn't happen the last 2 games. We've seen this show before, and I'm tired of watching game after game hoping for a different result. It's called insanity folks.

435B595E5E49585F424355300 wrote: They will play 162 games.  They have played four.  There is no way to draw any long term conclusions about this team right now.  The knee jerk reaction of fans in baseball...  It's football mentality in baseball.



The hitting is bad, but they have had 2 guys (Shuck & Reyes) getting big at bats that won't even be on the MLB roster next month.  When Polanco and Chisenhall get back, those two won't be getting important at bats.  It sucks they are here now, but they are literally the 3rd and 4 options.  Plus, they have played a strangely high amount because of issues with Marte/Dickerson and the extra innings.  Those things even out beyond four games.



The bullpen has been a dumpster fire so far.  To suggest that this will be what happens all year is foolishness.  It may, but it is unlikely.  It seems like people want to blame Hurdle for the bullpen uses in these last two losses.  I see that.  You can always second guess.  But the reality is, these guys in the bullpen have a job to do.  Many of them have proven they can successfully do it.  Rodriguez and Kela were the two that really cost them these last two games.  Last year, they were both fantastic.  I suspect they will come around and return to that form.



These two games have sucked.  They have been incredible frustrating to watch and I have felt like I wasted my time watching them.  And, these 4 games count as 2.5% of the season.  To draw sweeping generalizations about the whole season from 2.5% of the games seems irresponsible.
No one should draw a conclusion on Gonzalez, Reyes, Kang, Newman, Moran, Burdi, Brault, Kingham, and I haven't.  However it's, pretty obvious with Hurdle we've watched him for years nothing going to change for the better.   Bell he was awful an entire year last year while batting 4th most of the year.  Some of the older players like Cervelli, Archer have to be re-evaluated constantly as they could be declining like we all do with age.  However it's, pretty obvious our manager is a dinosaur we've watched him for years and nothings going to change with him.  Josh Bell he was awful an entire year last year while batting 4th most of the year, and I see no signs of a resurgence in fact quite the opposite, he is not getting good swings on anything.  I saw a very good sign from Moran last night when he almost  came out of his shoes swinging at the only pitch he got that was hit-able, I would replace Bell with Moran immediately.  Liriano, Cabrera, Shuck are taking up slots I would rather see younger players, especially Jason Martin for Cabrera, Polanco should replace Shuck, Liriano is just awful how much more do we need to see of that guy. 



What seems to be lost here is we just lost 2 games that you can never get back that were very winnable with a manager who understands his team and players.  Yes the players didn't perform, but the manager has to put them in the best position to win and that didn't happen the last 2 games.  We've seen this show before, and I'm tired of watching game after game  hoping for a different result.   It's called insanity folks.


The reality is we've lost 3 games in the late innings. That's an almost crazy stat at this point.



Bell is a major concern. I suspect he is pressing big time and not handling the pressure. The 4-spot was a terrible decision because of the pressure.



Maybe Moran is a real first baseman and can take over in due time. But what I see is another high-end prospect that the Pirates are going to get next to zero value out of and who will probably turn it around with another organization. The Pirates can't afford to make a mistake with Bell.

4344525A5443040871565C50585D1F525E5C310 wrote: They will play 162 games.  They have played four.  There is no way to draw any long term conclusions about this team right now.  The knee jerk reaction of fans in baseball...  It's football mentality in baseball.



The hitting is bad, but they have had 2 guys (Shuck & Reyes) getting big at bats that won't even be on the MLB roster next month.  When Polanco and Chisenhall get back, those two won't be getting important at bats.  It sucks they are here now, but they are literally the 3rd and 4 options.  Plus, they have played a strangely high amount because of issues with Marte/Dickerson and the extra innings.  Those things even out beyond four games.



The bullpen has been a dumpster fire so far.  To suggest that this will be what happens all year is foolishness.  It may, but it is unlikely.  It seems like people want to blame Hurdle for the bullpen uses in these last two losses.  I see that.  You can always second guess.  But the reality is, these guys in the bullpen have a job to do.  Many of them have proven they can successfully do it.  Rodriguez and Kela were the two that really cost them these last two games.  Last year, they were both fantastic.  I suspect they will come around and return to that form.



These two games have sucked.  They have been incredible frustrating to watch and I have felt like I wasted my time watching them.  And, these 4 games count as 2.5% of the season.  To draw sweeping generalizations about the whole season from 2.5% of the games seems irresponsible.
No one should draw a conclusion on Gonzalez, Reyes, Kang, Newman, Moran, Burdi, Brault, Kingham, and I haven't.  However it's, pretty obvious with Hurdle we've watched him for years nothing going to change for the better.   Bell he was awful an entire year last year while batting 4th most of the year.  Some of the older players like Cervelli, Archer have to be re-evaluated constantly as they could be declining like we all do with age.  However it's, pretty obvious our manager is a dinosaur we've watched him for years and nothings going to change with him.  Josh Bell he was awful an entire year last year while batting 4th most of the year, and I see no signs of a resurgence in fact quite the opposite, he is not getting good swings on anything.  I saw a very good sign from Moran last night when he almost  came out of his shoes swinging at the only pitch he got that was hit-able, I would replace Bell with Moran immediately.  Liriano, Cabrera, Shuck are taking up slots I would rather see younger players, especially Jason Martin for Cabrera, Polanco should replace Shuck, Liriano is just awful how much more do we need to see of that guy. 



What seems to be lost here is we just lost 2 games that you can never get back that were very winnable with a manager who understands his team and players.  Yes the players didn't perform, but the manager has to put them in the best position to win and that didn't happen the last 2 games.  We've seen this show before, and I'm tired of watching game after game  hoping for a different result.   It's called insanity folks.


The reality is we've lost 3 games in the late innings.  That's an almost crazy stat at this point.



Bell is a major concern.  I suspect he is pressing big time and not handling the pressure.  The 4-spot was a terrible decision because of the pressure. 



Maybe Moran is a real first baseman and can take over in due time.  But what I see is another high-end prospect that the Pirates are going to get next to zero value out of and who will probably turn it around with another organization.  The Pirates can't afford to make a mistake with s]Bell[/s].[highlight]anyone[/highlight]/quote]