OnlyBucs

2027362536676A530 wrote: I think the lineup is ok. It's just a shame they couldn't get Bell off 1B to be the DH. But they need Cabrera in the lineup and none of the OFers play 1B.


I guess 75 million these days gets you a lineup that has trouble scoring runs and plays smelly defense ? Also provides for bad attendance ?
The MLB average payroll is 134.5 mil. The teams with lower payrolls than the Pirates are the Orioles (10-20), Marlins (8-20)....and the 1st place Rays (19-9). The Rays have MLB's lowest payroll (61 mil). But they've got those super pitchers Glasnow and Morton and that Meadows kid.




I've been a avid Pirate fan since 1960 and never did too much complaining. I'm just so pissed now and can't let it go. You don't go with a small payroll and trade your best prospects for someone like Archer . They had zero chance to get to a WS without spending around 50 million. They did this to hoodwink the fans into thinking winning was the first priority. It's blown up in their faces and watch the attendance sour even more when Glasnow wins a CY Young and Archer continues to be Archer. Sorry to be so redundant as I've been bitching since the day this trade was made.




There were very few that had any hope in Glasnow when he was traded. The whole city had really soured on him. This board had generally soured on him. At the time (and still now), I am fine with the trade if they would have used nearly any other pitcher in their system other than Glasnow in that spot (Keller also). Glasnow had been dominant, in the minors, in ways that very few prospects ever are. I hate how they used him last year and I abhor that they traded low on him. The Pirates always talk about maximizing their assets. It was the worst possible time to trade Glasnow. To get a proven All Star (albeit awhile back), you have to trade some stuff. I expect Meadows to be great and Baz could be good. Including Glasnow was too much. But, again, there were very few of us who said that part about the trade when it happened.

54564C4A5C390 wrote: If they think of Reynolds as a more long-term piece, they'll likely be thinking service time issues. As with Martin.
Well it should be a winning games issue instead and making the team better now issue over worrying about service time. Reynolds has earned the right to be up here and should keep a roster spot over guys like Pablo Reyes or JB Shuck period end of discussion.

564B6F6D63060 wrote: I think the lineup is ok. It's just a shame they couldn't get Bell off 1B to be the DH. But they need Cabrera in the lineup and none of the OFers play 1B.


I guess 75 million these days gets you a lineup that has trouble scoring runs and plays smelly defense ? Also provides for bad attendance ?
The MLB average payroll is 134.5 mil. The teams with lower payrolls than the Pirates are the Orioles (10-20), Marlins (8-20)....and the 1st place Rays (19-9). The Rays have MLB's lowest payroll (61 mil). But they've got those super pitchers Glasnow and Morton and that Meadows kid.




I've been a avid Pirate fan since 1960 and never did too much complaining. I'm just so pissed now and can't let it go. You don't go with a small payroll and trade your best prospects for someone like Archer . They had zero chance to get to a WS without spending around 50 million. They did this to hoodwink the fans into thinking winning was the first priority. It's blown up in their faces and watch the attendance sour even more when Glasnow wins a CY Young and Archer continues to be Archer. Sorry to be so redundant as I've been bitching since the day this trade was made.




There were very few that had any hope in Glasnow when he was traded.   The whole city had really soured on him.  This board had generally soured on him.  At the time (and still now), I am fine with the trade if they would have used nearly any other pitcher in their system other than Glasnow in that spot (Keller also).  Glasnow had been dominant, in the minors, in ways that very few prospects ever are.  I hate how they used him last year and I abhor that they traded low on him.  The Pirates always talk about maximizing their assets.  It was the worst possible time to trade Glasnow.  To get a proven All Star (albeit awhile back), you have to trade some stuff.  I expect Meadows to be great and Baz could be good.  Including Glasnow was too much.  But, again, there were very few of us who said that part about the trade when it happened.
But looking at it from TB's POV, they were getting the Glasnow who was a total disaster with the Pirates, who were giving up on him. TB had to face the possibility that they were taking a flyer on someone who very well might never amount to anything more than he was with the Pirates. Meadows was the key guy. He was a top prospect who had performed very well with the Pirates when called up. Baz was also a good prospect but was still at the rookie league level. He's a long way off and a lot can happen between rookie league and MLB and expectations can change along the way. So TB was trading Archer for Meadows and 2 pitchers who may or may not amount to anything.



What has blown this deal in NH's face is that Glasnow, from day 1 in TB, became the pitcher the Pirates had expected to see and had counted on. Glasnow says, “Just mentality and confidence. Just going out and believing in my stuff. Just really going out and competing.’’ https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/20 ... again-5-2/



This makes the Pirates look very bad. They just couldn't get through to Glasnow and gave up on a pitcher who had tons of ability (which they knew) because they couldn't help him with the mental aspects of the game.

57706165607D42766160607D040 wrote: If they think of Reynolds as a more long-term piece, they'll likely be thinking service time issues. As with Martin.
Well it should be a winning games issue instead and making the team better now issue over worrying about service time. Reynolds has earned the right to be up here and should keep a roster spot over guys like Pablo Reyes or JB Shuck period end of discussion.
He would be sitting on the bench when Dickerson comes back anyhow. Melky is hitting so I would assume Reynolds goes back down to get regular at bats. If or when someone gets traded or hurt again he will be back up. Its nice to see him play well and see what we have coming in the future.

7A6743414F2A0 wrote: I think the lineup is ok. It's just a shame they couldn't get Bell off 1B to be the DH. But they need Cabrera in the lineup and none of the OFers play 1B.


I guess 75 million these days gets you a lineup that has trouble scoring runs and plays smelly defense ? Also provides for bad attendance ?
The MLB average payroll is 134.5 mil. The teams with lower payrolls than the Pirates are the Orioles (10-20), Marlins (8-20)....and the 1st place Rays (19-9). The Rays have MLB's lowest payroll (61 mil). But they've got those super pitchers Glasnow and Morton and that Meadows kid.




I've been a avid Pirate fan since 1960 and never did too much complaining. I'm just so pissed now and can't let it go. You don't go with a small payroll and trade your best prospects for someone like Archer . They had zero chance to get to a WS without spending around 50 million. They did this to hoodwink the fans into thinking winning was the first priority. It's blown up in their faces and watch the attendance sour even more when Glasnow wins a CY Young and Archer continues to be Archer. Sorry to be so redundant as I've been bitching since the day this trade was made.




There were very few that had any hope in Glasnow when he was traded.   The whole city had really soured on him.  This board had generally soured on him.  At the time (and still now), I am fine with the trade if they would have used nearly any other pitcher in their system other than Glasnow in that spot (Keller also).  Glasnow had been dominant, in the minors, in ways that very few prospects ever are.  I hate how they used him last year and I abhor that they traded low on him.  The Pirates always talk about maximizing their assets.  It was the worst possible time to trade Glasnow.  To get a proven All Star (albeit awhile back), you have to trade some stuff.  I expect Meadows to be great and Baz could be good.  Including Glasnow was too much.  But, again, there were very few of us who said that part about the trade when it happened.


The way they handled Meadows was inexcusable. I was  incredulous the way they handled him and his torrid start upon call up - they started platooning and then sitting him and his numbers dropped off. They send him down, he struggles and they trade him low. 



He should have stayed in the everyday lineup and given every chance Bell or any other high prospect receives.  They treated Frazier better than Meadows. It’s like they were punishing him.



Glasnow - un-be-lieve-able. It’s one thing for a bunch of baseball fans to miss, but that the Pirates could not manage Glasnow speaks volumns.



I simply can’t think about the front office.  It infuriates me to do so. Nutting has been given a money printing machine, the best stadium in all of sports and he apparently is unaccountable to anyone but his banker. It’s wrong. It’s 100% wrong. It’s immoral in MHO, especially when it’s remember Daddy Nutting wound up as the owner with a mere $5M initial investment.  If McClachy had maintained control I have no doubt he would be doing everything he could to win.



Anyone that becomes offended when die hard fans reach a boiling is simply being unfair.  The fans are NOT to blame. 

Yea the fans have nothing at all to do with how much money is spent on the team or who the team decides to trade or play on a regular basis. The fans showed up for this team in 2013-2015 when the front office said they would spend if the team won and attendance went up. All of that happened and Nutting and Coonelly and the front office pissed on the fans pretty much and lied and are still lying to this day about it. Again the fans have every right to complain and be upset when the team doesn’t play well. It’s not their fault for anything that is going on on the field or in the front office period.

6C6D7667713136020 wrote: If they think of Reynolds as a more long-term piece, they'll likely be thinking service time issues. As with Martin.
Well it should be a winning games issue instead and making the team better now issue over worrying about service time. Reynolds has earned the right to be up here and should keep a roster spot over guys like Pablo Reyes or JB Shuck period end of discussion.
He would be sitting on the bench when Dickerson comes back anyhow. Melky is hitting so I would assume Reynolds goes back down to get regular at bats. If or when someone gets traded or hurt again he will be back up. Its nice to see him play well and see what we have coming in the future.
For some reason Reynolds reminds me of Richie Zisk.

Our Future OF could have been Reynolds, Swaggerty and Meadows. Sigh.



Now we are stuck with a popgun arm throwing RF who might or might not ever recover from surgery 100%.



I wonder if they would ever consider making him a 1B? He is a bigger target than Bell.



I see Bell being traded to the American League at some point.



Happy for the victory last night, Vazquez was a bit shaky, but prevailed.



Let's go for 2 in a row today!

163B36272031266665540 wrote: I think the lineup is ok. It's just a shame they couldn't get Bell off 1B to be the DH. But they need Cabrera in the lineup and none of the OFers play 1B.


I guess 75 million these days gets you a lineup that has trouble scoring runs and plays smelly defense ? Also provides for bad attendance ?
The MLB average payroll is 134.5 mil. The teams with lower payrolls than the Pirates are the Orioles (10-20), Marlins (8-20)....and the 1st place Rays (19-9). The Rays have MLB's lowest payroll (61 mil). But they've got those super pitchers Glasnow and Morton and that Meadows kid.




I've been a avid Pirate fan since 1960 and never did too much complaining. I'm just so pissed now and can't let it go. You don't go with a small payroll and trade your best prospects for someone like Archer . They had zero chance to get to a WS without spending around 50 million. They did this to hoodwink the fans into thinking winning was the first priority. It's blown up in their faces and watch the attendance sour even more when Glasnow wins a CY Young and Archer continues to be Archer. Sorry to be so redundant as I've been bitching since the day this trade was made.




There were very few that had any hope in Glasnow when he was traded.   The whole city had really soured on him.  This board had generally soured on him.  At the time (and still now), I am fine with the trade if they would have used nearly any other pitcher in their system other than Glasnow in that spot (Keller also).  Glasnow had been dominant, in the minors, in ways that very few prospects ever are.  I hate how they used him last year and I abhor that they traded low on him.  The Pirates always talk about maximizing their assets.  It was the worst possible time to trade Glasnow.  To get a proven All Star (albeit awhile back), you have to trade some stuff.  I expect Meadows to be great and Baz could be good.  Including Glasnow was too much.  But, again, there were very few of us who said that part about the trade when it happened.
 



What has blown this deal in NH's face is that Glasnow, from day 1 in TB, became the pitcher the Pirates had expected to see and had counted on. Glasnow says, “Just mentality and confidence. Just going out and believing in my stuff. Just really going out and competing.’’ https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/20 ... again-5-2/



This makes the Pirates look very bad. They just couldn't get through to Glasnow and gave up on a pitcher who had tons of ability (which they knew) because they couldn't help him with the mental aspects of the game.


Yeah, I agree. That statement makes the Pirates look really bad. Glasnow's instantaneous turn around makes the Pirates look bad. But I just don't get it. I thought this was always in Glasnow. I think the Pirates handled him terribly. Especially when they sent him to the bullpen as the last man standing. I always felt he was going to be a great pitcher some day. I used to compare him to Randy Johnson.



However, his immediate success as soon as he got off the plane. How does that really happen? While the Pirates are clearly to blame, what is going on in his (Glasnow's) head? What responsibility lies on him? Relationship failures are rarely completely one sided. The speed in which the turn around happened is hard for me to wrap my head around.

120F2B2927420 wrote: I think the lineup is ok. It's just a shame they couldn't get Bell off 1B to be the DH. But they need Cabrera in the lineup and none of the OFers play 1B.


I guess 75 million these days gets you a lineup that has trouble scoring runs and plays smelly defense ? Also provides for bad attendance ?
The MLB average payroll is 134.5 mil. The teams with lower payrolls than the Pirates are the Orioles (10-20), Marlins (8-20)....and the 1st place Rays (19-9). The Rays have MLB's lowest payroll (61 mil). But they've got those super pitchers Glasnow and Morton and that Meadows kid.




I've been a avid Pirate fan since 1960 and never did too much complaining. I'm just so pissed now and can't let it go. You don't go with a small payroll and trade your best prospects for someone like Archer . They had zero chance to get to a WS without spending around 50 million. They did this to hoodwink the fans into thinking winning was the first priority. It's blown up in their faces and watch the attendance sour even more when Glasnow wins a CY Young and Archer continues to be Archer. Sorry to be so redundant as I've been bitching since the day this trade was made.




There were very few that had any hope in Glasnow when he was traded.   The whole city had really soured on him.  This board had generally soured on him.  At the time (and still now), I am fine with the trade if they would have used nearly any other pitcher in their system other than Glasnow in that spot (Keller also).  Glasnow had been dominant, in the minors, in ways that very few prospects ever are.  I hate how they used him last year and I abhor that they traded low on him.  The Pirates always talk about maximizing their assets.  It was the worst possible time to trade Glasnow.  To get a proven All Star (albeit awhile back), you have to trade some stuff.  I expect Meadows to be great and Baz could be good.  Including Glasnow was too much.  But, again, there were very few of us who said that part about the trade when it happened.
 



What has blown this deal in NH's face is that Glasnow, from day 1 in TB, became the pitcher the Pirates had expected to see and had counted on. Glasnow says, “Just mentality and confidence. Just going out and believing in my stuff. Just really going out and competing.’’ https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/20 ... again-5-2/



This makes the Pirates look very bad. They just couldn't get through to Glasnow and gave up on a pitcher who had tons of ability (which they knew) because they couldn't help him with the mental aspects of the game.


Yeah, I agree.  That statement makes the Pirates look really bad.  Glasnow's instantaneous turn around makes the Pirates look bad.  But I just don't get it.  I thought this was always in Glasnow.  I think the Pirates handled him terribly.  Especially when they sent him to the bullpen as the last man standing.  I always felt he was going to be a great pitcher some day.  I used to compare him to Randy Johnson.



However, his immediate success as soon as he got off the plane.  How does that really happen?  While the Pirates are clearly to blame, what is going on in his (Glasnow's) head?  What responsibility lies on him?  Relationship failures are rarely completely one sided.  The speed in which the turn around happened is hard for me to wrap my head around.


the speed of turn around flummoxes me too. Although I think Archer's performance is the key to this deal. If he is only a little above average or mediocre it is a bad deal (then the Pirates misjudged what they were getting and what they were sending).



Kela needs to come through too. You just can't miss on trades like this if you are a team like the Pirates.