OnlyBucs

7C7477405673545B350 wrote: OK. I don't know about Crick. Hurdle said he was unavailable. Fine. What I do care about is Kela, and Hurdle said Vazquez was available "for a save only." Seems to me that the game could have been saved in the 8th inning. Use Vazquez to get out of the jam in the 8th, and let Lyons work the ninth with a four run lead.



What REALLY bugs me though is that they put Kela on the injured list AFTER the game. First, it's been four days. What could they possibly have learned today that they didn't know yesterday? Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they really didn't know and Kela truly was a "game time" decision. Fine. They should have had another arm basically on a taxi squad. What if this game went extra innings, which it well could have? They were basically out of pitchers. And it's not like no one could have seen this coming. It's not like it came out of left field that they were going to go with two spot starters this week, neither of whom had really been built up much beyond what they could give.



This was a bad loss. I doubt that it causes a tailspin, but we've had about six or seven games this year that really should have been W's turn into L's.




I think this all fits with Bobster's explanation that they don't really prioritize winning. Its like they think about the big August and September games and think that taking a chance here will pay off later. It is just stupid.

745253445242310 wrote: Since Kela was placed on injured list after the game, the Bucs chose to go into this game short handed.



I can see them being in a bind because of that.



IMO, that means you need to try and get two innings out of Liriano after he had a good first inning.



The other thing this game shows is that it is hard to have 4 or 5 relievers come in and shut down the other team.



It is really inexcusable though to go into today's game knowing Kela was not able to pitch and not having a replacement.  rather than Lyons in the 8th it should have been Nightmare (and if he wasn't available either then it is just double down on management for not being prepared.



If you had told me last week when they said Kingham and Brault were going to start I'd have been very satisfied to get 8 innings out of them.




After game Clint said that Crick wasn't going to pitch today because he had pitched 3 out of past 4, same with Nightmare (except he would in save situation)  I know it was not technically save situation but the bases loaded at bat by Pence should have been considered one.



I wasn't really that upset about blowing the game but in hindsight I am getting disgusted because their explanations don't make sense to me.



Probably 50-50 chance to win tomorrow, going into the 8th today it was 80-20.
That drives me crazy (admittedly, it's a short drive). Why does a stat dictate whether a pitcher will be used or not? Either he's physically available to pitch or he's not. So if they need a reliever but there's no stat to be gained, Hurdle would rather trust the game to less talented pitchers and possibly lose the game. Because losing is infinitely better than winning if that win requires your closer to pitch without adding a save to his stats. >:(

Ya it was insane not to use Vazquez there in the 8th after Feliz just walked the bases loaded. Hurdle’s explanations afterwards are just ludicrous and inexcusable. He manages for the hypothetical situations like Bobster explained that usually never happen. Like Bobster also pointed out why not just use Liriano another inning after he pitched a great 7th. Why tax an already run down bullpen by pitching Feliz instead who just simply can’t be trusted.  There have been some poorly managed games by Clint but this one definitely ranks up there in the top 3 or 4 and I have a bad feeling it’s going to lead to a huge downward spiral on this road trip. I hope I’m wrong but this was a huge huge loss today and Clint could seem to give a damn less afterwards that they lost the way they did he thinks he did everything right today.

My thought is the schedule might have more of an effect on a huge downward spiral.

44637276736E51657273736E170 wrote: Ya it was insane not to use Vazquez there in the 8th after Feliz just walked the bases loaded. Hurdle’s explanations afterwards are just ludicrous and inexcusable. He manages for the hypothetical situations like Bobster explained that usually never happen. Like Bobster also pointed out why not just use Liriano another inning after he pitched a great 7th. Why tax an already run down bullpen by pitching Feliz instead who just simply can’t be trusted.  There have been some poorly managed games by Clint but this one definitely ranks up there in the top 3 or 4 and I have a bad feeling it’s going to lead to a huge downward spiral on this road trip. I hope I’m wrong but this was a huge huge loss today and Clint could seem to give a damn less afterwards that they lost the way they did he thinks he did everything right today.




I think NH also thinks Clint did a good job. These two are joined at the hip as far as I'm concerned.

0F29283F29394A0 wrote: Ya it was insane not to use Vazquez there in the 8th after Feliz just walked the bases loaded. Hurdle’s explanations afterwards are just ludicrous and inexcusable. He manages for the hypothetical situations like Bobster explained that usually never happen. Like Bobster also pointed out why not just use Liriano another inning after he pitched a great 7th. Why tax an already run down bullpen by pitching Feliz instead who just simply can’t be trusted.  There have been some poorly managed games by Clint but this one definitely ranks up there in the top 3 or 4 and I have a bad feeling it’s going to lead to a huge downward spiral on this road trip. I hope I’m wrong but this was a huge huge loss today and Clint could seem to give a damn less afterwards that they lost the way they did he thinks he did everything right today.




I think NH also thinks Clint did a good job.  These two are joined at the hip as far as I'm concerned.
I don't think there's any doubt about it. Hurdle and Huntington both got 4 year extensions at a time that their decisions had many fans wondering why one or both weren't being fired. Nutting wants to win but draws the line at spending anything more than a MLB minimal amount. NH wants to win but operates within the impossible constraints imposed by Nutting. Hurdle wants to win but draws the line at using his players in any way that doesn't offer maximum rest. So nobody's really trying all that hard and everyone involved puts losing ahead of breaking their own self-imposed rules.

I usually support Hurdle; but today I also think that he should have brought in Vazquez for a 4 out save and had him face Pence.

However you have to also consider that with the exception of Vazquez, Crick and the occasional Liriano; this bullpen is a disaster. That is not on Hurdle; but more on NH. With all of the injuries we need better options

426465726474070 wrote: So ... it just pains me to watch Feliz pitch as well as Neveraskmewhy. They just don't seem to have it when pushed to the MLB level.



This kid has always been a long shot, he doesn't throw hard from what I've read. As a 32nd rounder from a tiny school he has never, ever been a prospect - and he's been in our system for a long, long time. But I would love to see what DuRapau could do with his great control and four pitch arsenal. Currently 14.1 inning pitched H5 BB5 K18 ER1 WHIP 0.70. Put him on the 40-man roster and get him up for either one of those guys. With Kela out, we need someone who can at least look like he can get guys out. I'd just like to see what he can do. He's the proverbial Cinderella story and I have a hunch (for whatever that's worth).



There are times I despise the whole "prospect" high-ceiling, low-floor speculation. Some guys just deserve a shot because they often surprise you. I think he will get guys out consistently since he has done that his whole career. I don't care that he's not 6'6" and only weighs 175 lbs. Today Feliz came in and I white-knuckled (agree with those who wanted Liriano to go another inning after only, what, 13 pitches). If DuRapau is your choice as closer for your AAA team, why isn't he in line for a call up?



http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?si ... g/2019/ALL




I read on Bucs Dugout yesterday that NH hinted strongly he was next one to come up and it could happen this week.  I guess with Kela gone we will see Montana.


If that is true it begs the question why wait a day. We were pitching with a really short bullpen, why wait to put Kela on the IL. The same move yesterday would have given us one more arm today.

7B5A4F467E475C4F5A4B2E0 wrote: So ... it just pains me to watch Feliz pitch as well as Neveraskmewhy. They just don't seem to have it when pushed to the MLB level.



This kid has always been a long shot, he doesn't throw hard from what I've read. As a 32nd rounder from a tiny school he has never, ever been a prospect - and he's been in our system for a long, long time. But I would love to see what DuRapau could do with his great control and four pitch arsenal. Currently 14.1 inning pitched H5 BB5 K18 ER1 WHIP 0.70. Put him on the 40-man roster and get him up for either one of those guys. With Kela out, we need someone who can at least look like he can get guys out. I'd just like to see what he can do. He's the proverbial Cinderella story and I have a hunch (for whatever that's worth).



There are times I despise the whole "prospect" high-ceiling, low-floor speculation. Some guys just deserve a shot because they often surprise you. I think he will get guys out consistently since he has done that his whole career. I don't care that he's not 6'6" and only weighs 175 lbs. Today Feliz came in and I white-knuckled (agree with those who wanted Liriano to go another inning after only, what, 13 pitches). If DuRapau is your choice as closer for your AAA team, why isn't he in line for a call up?



http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?si ... g/2019/ALL




I read on Bucs Dugout yesterday that NH hinted strongly he was next one to come up and it could happen this week.  I guess with Kela gone we will see Montana.


If that is true it begs the question why wait a day. We were pitching with a really short bullpen, why wait to put Kela on the IL. The same move yesterday would have given us one more arm today.




possible answers:



1. arrogance

2. stupidity

3. cheapness (which I find hard to believe that money could factor into this)

4. they thought Kela might be back for road trip

5. some combination of above.



My vote is combination of 1 and 2

Hurdle managed this game like it was a throwaway game against a bad team. He got arrogant and stupid and thought the bullpen could hold a 4 run lead so he puts Minor League caliber pitching out there trying to get the win while saving his good relievers. You never take any win for granted and Hurdle does way too many times and would rather rests guys then win a game on a certain day it’s truly remarkable how many times this continues to happen with Hurdle. They had an off day on Monday are both Crick and Vazquez really that tired that they both couldn’t pitch on consecutive days like Clint kept saying after the game. Gimmie a break.