654342554353200 wrote: I know that my wish is unlikely to happen but, if true equity is the goal, then that's the type of system that has to be adopted.
The Pirates have had four winning seasons since 1992. Some of that has to do with poor management from the owner on down through the scouting and development staff. But even with capable people in place, like in Tampa and Oakland, the chances of getting to the World Series are seriously stacked against about 10 of the teams, a third of MLB. How can that be preferable?
the problem with this is that neither owners or players care if there is true equity. Maybe if they were just starting to form a league that would be one of the goals.
As a Pirate fan it would be nice if changes were made to move toward equity.
I agree that the owners and players have little incentive for such a change because all of them are doing quite well under the current system. The big losers are the fans in cities like Pittsburgh, but I don't think the owners have ever really cared about the fans.
Ben Cherington say . . .
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Ben Cherington say . . .
This is what bugs me...in the other three major pro sports, you have teams that are consistently good, and teams that are consistently bad. Fine. But at least everyone is on an even playing field. The Giants, Rangers, and Knicks don't get rewarded for being in the biggest market the way the Yankees do.
The Patriots, Penguins, and Lakers don't have any added benefit to winning, beyond being an attractive landing spot for FAs.
Perfect example...the Royals and Chiefs both recently win championships. They play in the exact same market. The Royals have to tear down a championship team and rebuild from scratch. The Chiefs will probably be good for the foreseeable future, because they can build around a star QB. If the NFL operated under the same rules as MLB, it would only be a matter of time before Patrick Maholms was playing for the Patriots, Chargers, Jets, or Giants.
The Patriots, Penguins, and Lakers don't have any added benefit to winning, beyond being an attractive landing spot for FAs.
Perfect example...the Royals and Chiefs both recently win championships. They play in the exact same market. The Royals have to tear down a championship team and rebuild from scratch. The Chiefs will probably be good for the foreseeable future, because they can build around a star QB. If the NFL operated under the same rules as MLB, it would only be a matter of time before Patrick Maholms was playing for the Patriots, Chargers, Jets, or Giants.
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maher.timothy20@gm
Ben Cherington say . . .
I've always felt that a salary cap/floor system would work WAY BETTER in baseball than it would in other sports.
Yes, there's a level playing field, financially, in football, but the quarterback plays an outsized role in whether you're good or not. From 2001 to 2019 the AFC quarterback was, with two exceptions, always named Brady, Roethlisberger, or Manning.
In basketball the rosters are so small that the effect of one superstar is huge. If you have Lebron, odds are incredibly high you're going to be good. Whereas in baseball you can have Mike Trout and still suck if the players around him aren't good.
Ditto hockey.
Yes, there's a level playing field, financially, in football, but the quarterback plays an outsized role in whether you're good or not. From 2001 to 2019 the AFC quarterback was, with two exceptions, always named Brady, Roethlisberger, or Manning.
In basketball the rosters are so small that the effect of one superstar is huge. If you have Lebron, odds are incredibly high you're going to be good. Whereas in baseball you can have Mike Trout and still suck if the players around him aren't good.
Ditto hockey.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Ben Cherington say . . .
085E485C534959525F487A5D575B535614593A0 wrote: I know that my wish is unlikely to happen but, if true equity is the goal, then that's the type of system that has to be adopted.
The Pirates have had four winning seasons since 1992. Some of that has to do with poor management from the owner on down through the scouting and development staff. But even with capable people in place, like in Tampa and Oakland, the chances of getting to the World Series are seriously stacked against about 10 of the teams, a third of MLB. How can that be preferable?
the problem with this is that neither owners or players care if there is true equity. Maybe if they were just starting to form a league that would be one of the goals.
As a Pirate fan it would be nice if changes were made to move toward equity.
I agree that the owners and players have little incentive for such a change because all of them are doing quite well under the current system. The big losers are the fans in cities like Pittsburgh, but I don't think the owners have ever really cared about the fans.
MLB needs to attract a new generation of fans. Even the Yankees will eventually peak and begin to lose value unless fundamental changes are made. Traditionalist (and I tend in that direction) are going to be faced with a decision for traditions or growing the game.
A material change to the playoffs, involving many more fans is a sure way to reengage lost fans. More teams need to be fighting for a playoff spot each year. Rebuilding an organization has to be accomplished in much less time. And there needs to be some opportunity for all teams to retain top tier talent, especially home grown.
MLB and the MLBPA can act like all is well, but they kid themselves.
NFL is a great example: all markets are considered important and all markets are making more money then they can print.
To attract new fans MLB needs to appeal to fans waaaaayyy beyond NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, and LA.
A much expanded playoff system and an enforceable ceiling and floor will go along way to reinventing the game. We might not like 14 (or 16) out of 30 teams in the playoffs, we might not like a shorter season due to the historic records, but baseball would draw a HUGE amount of interest if the month of September was all playoff baseball. Every series best of 7.
These changes would infuse a huge amt of money and fan interest. Pittsburgh would have a much greater chance even with Nutting.
The Pirates have had four winning seasons since 1992. Some of that has to do with poor management from the owner on down through the scouting and development staff. But even with capable people in place, like in Tampa and Oakland, the chances of getting to the World Series are seriously stacked against about 10 of the teams, a third of MLB. How can that be preferable?
the problem with this is that neither owners or players care if there is true equity. Maybe if they were just starting to form a league that would be one of the goals.
As a Pirate fan it would be nice if changes were made to move toward equity.
I agree that the owners and players have little incentive for such a change because all of them are doing quite well under the current system. The big losers are the fans in cities like Pittsburgh, but I don't think the owners have ever really cared about the fans.
MLB needs to attract a new generation of fans. Even the Yankees will eventually peak and begin to lose value unless fundamental changes are made. Traditionalist (and I tend in that direction) are going to be faced with a decision for traditions or growing the game.
A material change to the playoffs, involving many more fans is a sure way to reengage lost fans. More teams need to be fighting for a playoff spot each year. Rebuilding an organization has to be accomplished in much less time. And there needs to be some opportunity for all teams to retain top tier talent, especially home grown.
MLB and the MLBPA can act like all is well, but they kid themselves.
NFL is a great example: all markets are considered important and all markets are making more money then they can print.
To attract new fans MLB needs to appeal to fans waaaaayyy beyond NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, and LA.
A much expanded playoff system and an enforceable ceiling and floor will go along way to reinventing the game. We might not like 14 (or 16) out of 30 teams in the playoffs, we might not like a shorter season due to the historic records, but baseball would draw a HUGE amount of interest if the month of September was all playoff baseball. Every series best of 7.
These changes would infuse a huge amt of money and fan interest. Pittsburgh would have a much greater chance even with Nutting.
Ben Cherington say . . .
I think we are over analyzing this problem. We are never going to get a system where there is total equity between markets like NY and Boston vs. teams like the Pirates. Really, what MLB needs to do is to ensure that guys like Nutting do not get control of a baseball team and if they do they need to have some mechanism to get them out of baseball. After all, other small market teams make it work, it is just that Nutting is singularly focused on further enriching himself at he expense of Pirate fans.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Ben Cherington say . . .
7671676F6176313D446369656D682A676B69040 wrote: I know that my wish is unlikely to happen but, if true equity is the goal, then that's the type of system that has to be adopted.
The Pirates have had four winning seasons since 1992. Some of that has to do with poor management from the owner on down through the scouting and development staff. But even with capable people in place, like in Tampa and Oakland, the chances of getting to the World Series are seriously stacked against about 10 of the teams, a third of MLB. How can that be preferable?
the problem with this is that neither owners or players care if there is true equity. Maybe if they were just starting to form a league that would be one of the goals.
As a Pirate fan it would be nice if changes were made to move toward equity.
I agree that the owners and players have little incentive for such a change because all of them are doing quite well under the current system. The big losers are the fans in cities like Pittsburgh, but I don't think the owners have ever really cared about the fans.
MLB needs to attract a new generation of fans. Even the Yankees will eventually peak and begin to lose value unless fundamental changes are made. Traditionalist (and I tend in that direction) are going to be faced with a decision for traditions or growing the game.
A material change to the playoffs, involving many more fans is a sure way to reengage lost fans. More teams need to be fighting for a playoff spot each year. Rebuilding an organization has to be accomplished in much less time. And there needs to be some opportunity for all teams to retain top tier talent, especially home grown.
MLB and the MLBPA can act like all is well, but they kid themselves.
NFL is a great example: all markets are considered important and all markets are making more money then they can print.
To attract new fans MLB needs to appeal to fans waaaaayyy beyond NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, and LA.
[highlight]A much expanded playoff system and an enforceable ceiling and floor will go along way to reinventing the game. We might not like 14 (or 16) out of 30 teams in the playoffs, we might not like a shorter season due to the historic records, but baseball would draw a HUGE amount of interest if the month of September was all playoff baseball. Every series best of 7.[/highlight]
These changes would infuse a huge amt of money and fan interest. Pittsburgh would have a much greater chance even with Nutting.
I think what you say in the highlighted area makes a lot of sense. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to baseball but I agree with you regarding increasing the playoff format. It might water down the playoffs but, if equity is established regarding payroll spending, the talent would be better spread around the two leagues allowing for better competition.
I think I'd prefer a best of five format at least for the first two rounds, especially if the regular season isn't shortened. I do like the idea of having most of September being used for the playoffs.
The Pirates have had four winning seasons since 1992. Some of that has to do with poor management from the owner on down through the scouting and development staff. But even with capable people in place, like in Tampa and Oakland, the chances of getting to the World Series are seriously stacked against about 10 of the teams, a third of MLB. How can that be preferable?
the problem with this is that neither owners or players care if there is true equity. Maybe if they were just starting to form a league that would be one of the goals.
As a Pirate fan it would be nice if changes were made to move toward equity.
I agree that the owners and players have little incentive for such a change because all of them are doing quite well under the current system. The big losers are the fans in cities like Pittsburgh, but I don't think the owners have ever really cared about the fans.
MLB needs to attract a new generation of fans. Even the Yankees will eventually peak and begin to lose value unless fundamental changes are made. Traditionalist (and I tend in that direction) are going to be faced with a decision for traditions or growing the game.
A material change to the playoffs, involving many more fans is a sure way to reengage lost fans. More teams need to be fighting for a playoff spot each year. Rebuilding an organization has to be accomplished in much less time. And there needs to be some opportunity for all teams to retain top tier talent, especially home grown.
MLB and the MLBPA can act like all is well, but they kid themselves.
NFL is a great example: all markets are considered important and all markets are making more money then they can print.
To attract new fans MLB needs to appeal to fans waaaaayyy beyond NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, and LA.
[highlight]A much expanded playoff system and an enforceable ceiling and floor will go along way to reinventing the game. We might not like 14 (or 16) out of 30 teams in the playoffs, we might not like a shorter season due to the historic records, but baseball would draw a HUGE amount of interest if the month of September was all playoff baseball. Every series best of 7.[/highlight]
These changes would infuse a huge amt of money and fan interest. Pittsburgh would have a much greater chance even with Nutting.
I think what you say in the highlighted area makes a lot of sense. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to baseball but I agree with you regarding increasing the playoff format. It might water down the playoffs but, if equity is established regarding payroll spending, the talent would be better spread around the two leagues allowing for better competition.
I think I'd prefer a best of five format at least for the first two rounds, especially if the regular season isn't shortened. I do like the idea of having most of September being used for the playoffs.
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johnfluharty
Ben Cherington say . . .
I really like the idea of the playoffs starting in September.
Some people express concern that seasonal records would become unreachable with a shorter season, but realistically, what records are even reachable now?
On the hitting side, is anyone ever likely to break the home run or the stolen base record? Is anyone likely to break Ichiro's hits and singles record, and does anyone really care? All the other hitting records impacted by the number of games played were set 80+ years ago and are probably unreachable now.
On the pitching side, all the single season records impacted by the number of games played are already unreachable other than saves, and I for one do not care about that one at all.
Some people express concern that seasonal records would become unreachable with a shorter season, but realistically, what records are even reachable now?
On the hitting side, is anyone ever likely to break the home run or the stolen base record? Is anyone likely to break Ichiro's hits and singles record, and does anyone really care? All the other hitting records impacted by the number of games played were set 80+ years ago and are probably unreachable now.
On the pitching side, all the single season records impacted by the number of games played are already unreachable other than saves, and I for one do not care about that one at all.