Frazier traded to Padres

[GreenWeenie]

686D6A6C646E776A6370767B020 wrote: There's always next year.
Well that's just the thing. For Frazier, there's only next year, and we're probably not going to be competing for anything next year.  Plus, at 29, he is likely on the down slope.  Yes, at some point we have to stop trading away talent to acquire more talent, and hopefully that's soon, but it's not this year.




The most recently it's been 'this year' was 42 years ago. 



Not that anyone's counting. 




Are you suggesting we haven't added anyone to improve the team during a contending year for 42 years?  I guess guess I'd have to look to see if we actually added anyone during the 90s run but I don't recall any big additions during the more recent one, which would be the only time it was relevant since Nutting  owned the team. 


No. I'm suggesting that we've been trying to find the magic formula since the end of 1979.

[shedman]

073225252E1725252E2925400 wrote: There's always next year.
Well that's just the thing. For Frazier, there's only next year, and we're probably not going to be competing for anything next year.  Plus, at 29, he is likely on the down slope.  Yes, at some point we have to stop trading away talent to acquire more talent, and hopefully that's soon, but it's not this year.




The most recently it's been 'this year' was 42 years ago. 



Not that anyone's counting. 




Are you suggesting we haven't added anyone to improve the team during a contending year for 42 years?  I guess guess I'd have to look to see if we actually added anyone during the 90s run but I don't recall any big additions during the more recent one, which would be the only time it was relevant since Nutting  owned the team. 


No.  I'm suggesting that we've been trying to find the magic formula since the end of 1979.


_______

The future never arrives in Pittsburgh. This was a flat out salary dump for some utility players. We already had Gonzalez why do we need another utility guy?

[IABucFan]

2A2F282E262C352821323439400 wrote: There's always next year.
Well that's just the thing. For Frazier, there's only next year, and we're probably not going to be competing for anything next year.  Plus, at 29, he is likely on the down slope.  Yes, at some point we have to stop trading away talent to acquire more talent, and hopefully that's soon, but it's not this year.




The most recently it's been 'this year' was 42 years ago. 



Not that anyone's counting. 




Are you suggesting we haven't added anyone to improve the team during a contending year for 42 years?  I guess guess I'd have to look to see if we actually added anyone during the 90s run but I don't recall any big additions during the more recent one, which would be the only time it was relevant since Nutting  owned the team. 


I think we added in 13-15. Justin Morneau, Marlon Byrd, J.A. Happ, Vance Worley. There was a reliever in 15…can’t remember who. Even in 2012 when they were in a WC spot even into September (before the bottom fell out), they added Wandy Rodriguez. The 1997 Freak Show team added Shawon Dunston. 2011 was also semi-competitive (for awhile) and they added Derek Lee.



BTW, I have no opinion on the trade. Don’t know anything about these guys. What do I know about Frazier? We’re in last place with him. We can just as easily be in last place without him, to paraphrase Branch Rickey.

[Bobster21]

Please do a little research and get a clue before posting misinformation.



2B303D3C353936580 wrote: We get a couple of A ball suspects.  A flat out salary dump.
You got 1 of 3 right.

Miliano is indeed in A-ball. 3.16 ERA but way too many walks. He may be an A ball suspect.

Suwinski is an outfielder currently in AA where this year he has hit 15 HRs (3rd in that league) in just 216 ABs.

Marcano is currently in AAA hitting .272, spent some time with the Padres this year and is rated their 5th best prospect.



130805040D010E600 wrote: So now we have given San Diego a possible Cy Young pitcher and a possible batting champion for nothing.  Cherington is ruining this organization.
Theoretically, everyone is a possible Cy Young candidate. This is the first season Musgrove has had an ERA under .3.86. His 3.13 is nice but won't win any awards. Nor will his 6-7 record. The "nothing" they acquired for him is Bednar, likely their next closer, Hudson Head, who's showing power but a low BA (the way you love when Polanco does that), Omar Cruz, a LHP currently doing well this year in high-A and now Altoona, catcher Endy Rodriguez who's currently hitting well at Bradenton and RHP Drake Fellows who has barely pitched this year in the low minors. Your "nothing" is already working out well for Bednar and Head, Cruz and Rodriguez look like they could be useful in a few years.



746F62636A6669070 wrote:



The future never arrives in Pittsburgh.  This was a flat out salary dump for some utility players.  We already had Gonzalez why do we need another utility guy?
"Some utility players" is a pitcher, an outfielder with power and a 21 year old who, yes, has played both infield and outfield but has primarily played 2B. Which happens to be the position the Pirates need after dealing Frazier. And trying a 21 year old top prospect at various positions hardly means he has been earmarked as nothing more than a utility player. Gonzalez is nearly 30 and that's all he's ever done. Pretending like Marcano is just another Gonzalez is absurd.



I don't know how these players will work out. But posting misinformation about them either through ignorance or a deliberate attempt to mislead is not useful.

[fjk090852-7]

Everyone has the right of their opinion, but I get somewhat annoyed when people start to give negative information regarding players we received in trades or about the team in general. Sure we have to live with Bob Nutting, but give the new Operations Dept a chance to build the System. Sure the MLB team is weakened by the trade of Frazier, but look at the overall Pirates System. BC and his group has acquired talent since his hiring in November 2019. The Draft a few weeks ago appears to be a major success. Yes the players drafted must now develop, and as a fan I hope they do. There are also players the former regime signed like Matt Fraizer, Mason Martin and Quinn Priester who appear to be future building blocks for the Pirates future. Sure it might be a little frustrating now to watch the MLB team, but as early as next season around this time we should start seeing some of the Bucs future arrive in Pittsburgh. It is only my opinion, but baseball will be very enjoyable in Pittsburgh.

[SammyKhalifa]

Getting and gauging minor leaguers is still going to be very interesting for a bit. They all basically spent all of last year behind a black curtain. Some players seem to have come back showing a lot of improvement during that hidden timeframe. How much of these good half seasons are just an illusion?

[SammyKhalifa]

I'm not in twitter but I like google searching it whenever trades and such are going on.



Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal



Mariners also made offer for Adam Frazier and did not ask Pirates to put cash in deal, sources tell

@TheAthletic

. Pirates sent $1.4M to Padres in part because they value Marcano highly. If he evolves into Frazier type, Pirates get six years of him for 1-plus of Frazier.

[Bobster21]

675559594D7F5C55585D5255340 wrote: Getting and gauging minor leaguers is still going to be very interesting for a bit.  They all basically spent all of last year behind a black curtain.  Some players seem to have come back showing a lot of improvement during that hidden timeframe.  How much of these good half seasons are just an illusion? 
Marcano is a good example of that. A .300+ hitter in the low minors in 2018 and a .270 hitter with a full season of A-ball in 2019. Then the minors shut down for 2020. But Marcano made the Padres roster out of ST this year after hitting .410 without even ever having faced AA pitching. He was used very sparingly by the Padres and, not surprisingly, did not hit MLB pitching well although only striking out once in 13 PAs.



He was then sent to AAA, skipping AA altogether. I think because of the missed minor league season due to covid, some teams are willing to try this jump in minor leagues to avoid delaying the player's development by a year if possible. After barely playing with SD and not playing above A-ball in the minors, he struggled against AAA pitching but was recalled anyway out necessity a week later when 3 Padres went on the covid list in May. He was with the Padres a week and then back to AAA for a week and then back to SD for 1 more week and then back to AAA. Finally able to play everyday and adjust to the pitching, he has been in AAA since June 8 and has hit .320 with 6 HRs since then.



So between not playing last year, skipping over AA altogether and shuttling between AAA and MLB every other week this year, it has to be very difficult to gauge where a player is in his development. But in Marcano's case, it is encouraging that when they finally let him settle in at AAA in June he hit very well.

[WildwoodDave2]

436E63727564733330010 wrote: Getting and gauging minor leaguers is still going to be very interesting for a bit.  They all basically spent all of last year behind a black curtain.  Some players seem to have come back showing a lot of improvement during that hidden timeframe.  How much of these good half seasons are just an illusion? 
Marcano is a good example of that. A .300+ hitter in the low minors in 2018 and a .270 hitter with a full season of A-ball in 2019. Then the minors shut down for 2020. But Marcano made the Padres roster out of ST this year after hitting .410 without even ever having faced AA pitching. He was used very sparingly by the Padres and, not surprisingly, did not hit MLB pitching well although only striking out once in 13 PAs.



He was then sent to AAA, skipping AA altogether. I think because of the missed minor league season due to covid, some teams are willing to try this jump in minor leagues to avoid delaying the player's development by a year if possible. After barely playing with SD and not playing above A-ball in the minors, he struggled against AAA pitching but was recalled anyway out necessity a week later when 3 Padres went on the covid list in May. He was with the Padres a week and then back to AAA for a week and then back to SD for 1 more week and then back to AAA. Finally able to play everyday and adjust to the pitching, he has been in AAA since June 8 and has hit .320 with 6 HRs since then.



So between not playing last year, skipping over AA altogether and shuttling between AAA and MLB every other week this year, it has to be very difficult to gauge where a player is in his development. But in Marcano's case, it is encouraging that when they finally let him settle in at AAA in June he hit very well.
Article in today's PG by Jason Mackey on why it made sense to trade Frazier

[UtahPirate]

496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote: Getting and gauging minor leaguers is still going to be very interesting for a bit.  They all basically spent all of last year behind a black curtain.  Some players seem to have come back showing a lot of improvement during that hidden timeframe.  How much of these good half seasons are just an illusion? 
Marcano is a good example of that. A .300+ hitter in the low minors in 2018 and a .270 hitter with a full season of A-ball in 2019. Then the minors shut down for 2020. But Marcano made the Padres roster out of ST this year after hitting .410 without even ever having faced AA pitching. He was used very sparingly by the Padres and, not surprisingly, did not hit MLB pitching well although only striking out once in 13 PAs.



He was then sent to AAA, skipping AA altogether. I think because of the missed minor league season due to covid, some teams are willing to try this jump in minor leagues to avoid delaying the player's development by a year if possible. After barely playing with SD and not playing above A-ball in the minors, he struggled against AAA pitching but was recalled anyway out necessity a week later when 3 Padres went on the covid list in May. He was with the Padres a week and then back to AAA for a week and then back to SD for 1 more week and then back to AAA. Finally able to play everyday and adjust to the pitching, he has been in AAA since June 8 and has hit .320 with 6 HRs since then.



So between not playing last year, skipping over AA altogether and shuttling between AAA and MLB every other week this year, it has to be very difficult to gauge where a player is in his development. But in Marcano's case, it is encouraging that when they finally let him settle in at AAA in June he hit very well.


Thanks for the details. It is getting more obvious that BC wants Marcano in black and gold. The Padres must have budged on some part of the deal to make us pull the trigger on the 25th instead of waiting for the 30th when most of the action will happen.