I didn't say that it was bad. What I wrote is my opinion, and that I don't consider it "stellar." Good, maybe. Stellar, not in my opinion.
Shed can write for himself.
When it comes to "agendas," i think that it's easily obvious that both Surge and Shed have them.
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
1C313C2D2A3B2C6C6F5E0 wrote: Let's Go Bucs!!!
So far Bryce Wilson has turned out to be a pretty stellar trade.
______
5.24 ERA for today is absolutely stellar.
Here ya go. Read this and then try again.
How to compute ERA.
_________
Bryse Wilson 6.0 6 3 3 1 7 0 1.52 5.24
Anthony Banda 0.2 0 0 0 2 0 0 1.89 6.00
David Bednar 0.1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.06 2.70
those are current ERA's for this seasonal though for Bryse it should be 4.43 https://www.mlb.com/player/bryse-wilson-669060 slightly lower than his 4.50 ERA for today's six innings.
_______
Regardless of what period it is for and regardless of what it should be, 5.24 is NOT a stellar ERA.
I've warned you about this before, Shedman. DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING MISINFORMTION!!!!!!!!
Wilson came to the Pirates with an ERA this year of 4.83 from the Braves. His first game for the Pirates was on August 1 when he went 5 innings and gave up 1 run. That gave him an ERA of 1.80 as a Pirate and 4.42 combined.
Today was his second game as a Pirate. He went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs. Your comment was "5.24 ERA for today is absolutely stellar." But of course you were wrong. His ERA "for today" was 4.50. But we'll give you credit for just not knowing how to word a sentence. You probably meant the ERA "as of today was 5.24." But again you were wrong. As of today his ERA as a Pirate is 3.27. And as of today his combined ERA for both the Braves and Pirates is 4.43.
So then you say "Regardless of what period it is for and regardless of what it should be, 5.24 is NOT a stellar ERA." That comment serves your agenda of trying to make the case that Cherington makes terrible trades. You can't say Wilson's ERA as a Pirate is 3.27 because that's good and it defeats your argument. Even saying his combined ERA with the Braves and Pirates is 4.43 isn't bad enough for your purposes. So you can't say that either. But that fictitious ERA of 5.24 is exactly what you need. Except that everyone who reads your post knows it's total BS.
________
The "MISINFORMATION" was from Yahoo Sports. I have no idea what gyrations you and Surg want to go through to get an acceptable ERA for Wilson, but Yahoo sports listed it at 5.24. I didn't calculate the ERA, all I did was copy and paste it from Yahoo sports.
So far Bryce Wilson has turned out to be a pretty stellar trade.
______
5.24 ERA for today is absolutely stellar.
Here ya go. Read this and then try again.
How to compute ERA.
_________
Bryse Wilson 6.0 6 3 3 1 7 0 1.52 5.24
Anthony Banda 0.2 0 0 0 2 0 0 1.89 6.00
David Bednar 0.1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.06 2.70
those are current ERA's for this seasonal though for Bryse it should be 4.43 https://www.mlb.com/player/bryse-wilson-669060 slightly lower than his 4.50 ERA for today's six innings.
_______
Regardless of what period it is for and regardless of what it should be, 5.24 is NOT a stellar ERA.
I've warned you about this before, Shedman. DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING MISINFORMTION!!!!!!!!
Wilson came to the Pirates with an ERA this year of 4.83 from the Braves. His first game for the Pirates was on August 1 when he went 5 innings and gave up 1 run. That gave him an ERA of 1.80 as a Pirate and 4.42 combined.
Today was his second game as a Pirate. He went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs. Your comment was "5.24 ERA for today is absolutely stellar." But of course you were wrong. His ERA "for today" was 4.50. But we'll give you credit for just not knowing how to word a sentence. You probably meant the ERA "as of today was 5.24." But again you were wrong. As of today his ERA as a Pirate is 3.27. And as of today his combined ERA for both the Braves and Pirates is 4.43.
So then you say "Regardless of what period it is for and regardless of what it should be, 5.24 is NOT a stellar ERA." That comment serves your agenda of trying to make the case that Cherington makes terrible trades. You can't say Wilson's ERA as a Pirate is 3.27 because that's good and it defeats your argument. Even saying his combined ERA with the Braves and Pirates is 4.43 isn't bad enough for your purposes. So you can't say that either. But that fictitious ERA of 5.24 is exactly what you need. Except that everyone who reads your post knows it's total BS.
________
The "MISINFORMATION" was from Yahoo Sports. I have no idea what gyrations you and Surg want to go through to get an acceptable ERA for Wilson, but Yahoo sports listed it at 5.24. I didn't calculate the ERA, all I did was copy and paste it from Yahoo sports.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
7A7D6B636D7A3D31486F65696164266B6765080 wrote: Great. We are in a 1 run game and our 1B is bunting.
I'm surprised you knew that was a bunt.
There you have it ladies and gentlemen, the Pirates are swept in a four game series by the Reds and are now 29 games from losing 100
50 games to go.
The pirates are 1.5 games up on Baltimore and Texas, 6 games up on Arizona. Those dirty O’s , Rangers and Snakes - not doubt they are tanking!!
Outside of seeing some of our Minor League players getting some MLB exposure, the race to the #1 2022 Draft Pick is all that matters right now. The Bucs are in a good position to slide into the #2 spot.
It will be tough to overtake the Snakes but the stakes are high. The Bucs have a crucial 3 games series against Arizona later this month.
I’m expecting both teams to play their modified (last guy on the bench has earned some significant playing time!) Sunday lineup all three games. Should be exciting!
But there is a lot at stake. The difference in draft pool between drafting #1 and #4 is over $2M in 2021.
Exactly right
Without that extra $2M there is no way the Bucs could have signed all of the high prospects they were able to do this year.
If they can at least get into the #2 position next year, they may have a shot at Green or Rocker plus have the extra cash to get some high prospects. Another draft like this years will set up the Pirates future nicely.
I know tanking is frowned upon, but fortunately baseball does not have a lottery so it’s in the Pirates best interest. If the Penguins had not tanked in 1984, they not only would have missed out on Mario Lemieux, but they likely would no longer exist in Pittsburgh.
I'm surprised you knew that was a bunt.
There you have it ladies and gentlemen, the Pirates are swept in a four game series by the Reds and are now 29 games from losing 100
50 games to go.
The pirates are 1.5 games up on Baltimore and Texas, 6 games up on Arizona. Those dirty O’s , Rangers and Snakes - not doubt they are tanking!!
Outside of seeing some of our Minor League players getting some MLB exposure, the race to the #1 2022 Draft Pick is all that matters right now. The Bucs are in a good position to slide into the #2 spot.
It will be tough to overtake the Snakes but the stakes are high. The Bucs have a crucial 3 games series against Arizona later this month.
I’m expecting both teams to play their modified (last guy on the bench has earned some significant playing time!) Sunday lineup all three games. Should be exciting!
But there is a lot at stake. The difference in draft pool between drafting #1 and #4 is over $2M in 2021.
Exactly right
Without that extra $2M there is no way the Bucs could have signed all of the high prospects they were able to do this year.
If they can at least get into the #2 position next year, they may have a shot at Green or Rocker plus have the extra cash to get some high prospects. Another draft like this years will set up the Pirates future nicely.
I know tanking is frowned upon, but fortunately baseball does not have a lottery so it’s in the Pirates best interest. If the Penguins had not tanked in 1984, they not only would have missed out on Mario Lemieux, but they likely would no longer exist in Pittsburgh.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
It's pathetic that this is the only way the Pirates organization (along with some fans) think they can win.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
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johnfluharty
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
675245454E7745454E4945200 wrote: It's pathetic that this is the only way the Pirates organization (along with some fans) think they can win.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the reality is that we are and will continue to be on a limited budget, like it or not. So, we are hoping BC can figure out how to win within those constraints.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the reality is that we are and will continue to be on a limited budget, like it or not. So, we are hoping BC can figure out how to win within those constraints.
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
655047474C7547474C4B47220 wrote: It's pathetic that this is the only way the Pirates organization (along with some fans) think they can win.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
______
Some think that is all we have left as Pirate fans. As they watch every last major league ball player salary dumped as soon as they are able to command a salary above LM, all they can do is kick the can down the road and say Cherington will fix it some time in the undefined distant future.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
______
Some think that is all we have left as Pirate fans. As they watch every last major league ball player salary dumped as soon as they are able to command a salary above LM, all they can do is kick the can down the road and say Cherington will fix it some time in the undefined distant future.
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
Here it is again from Yahoo Sports:
Bryse Wilson Pit - P
FA
10 - Games played
1693
857
2%
44.2 - Innings pitched
2 - Wins
0 - Saves
30 - Strike outs
5.24 - ERA
1.52 - WHIP
_____
Again, I didn't calculate this and I don't know what period of time Yahoo used when they calculated this ERA
Bryse Wilson Pit - P
FA
10 - Games played
1693
857
2%
44.2 - Innings pitched
2 - Wins
0 - Saves
30 - Strike outs
5.24 - ERA
1.52 - WHIP
_____
Again, I didn't calculate this and I don't know what period of time Yahoo used when they calculated this ERA
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
677C717079757A140 wrote: It's pathetic that this is the only way the Pirates organization (along with some fans) think they can win.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
______
Some think that is all we have left as Pirate fans. As they watch every last major league ball player salary dumped as soon as they are able to command a salary above LM, all they can do is kick the can down the road and say Cherington will fix it some time in the undefined distant future.
I think it's more accurate to say that we hope Cherington will fix it. Anyone who is a Pirate fan is well aware of the obstacle that is Bob Nutting. We know he will not allow any GM to spend what it takes to bring in established, productive players either through trades or free agency. And we know that any productive player developed through the minors will reach a point where he can leave via free agency and has no incentive to sign a contract tying him to the Nutting organization through his prime MLB years even if Nutting was willing to pay, which he most certainly is not.
So what does that leave? A GM working for Nutting has to acquire young talent that can be developed in the minors to hopefully become productive at the MLB level and supplement that with cast offs from other teams who might possibly become more productive than their past would suggest. And when those good players approach free agency, the GM knows their window with the Nutting organization is closing and he better get what he can for them before they leave. And acquiring talent is very difficult since other teams are unwilling to trade their best prospects. It's easy to identify another team's best prospects. But they won't trade those guys. So you have to look at the next tier and try to identify which ones might be worth getting. And then you're accused of trading for "nobody."
It sounds like an impossible task and it probably is. As fans we can either give up on the Pirates or just hope that Nutting will find a GM who can actually build a winner despite those severe restrictions. Is Cherington that guy? We don't know. We know Huntington wasn't so the change was welcome. Since the draft is so important to how the Pirates acquire talent, it is encouraging that their draft was rated so high. And we can only hope that guys like Park and Wilson and Marcano and some of the other "nobodys" that we never heard of turn out well.
Cherington is trying. We can only hope he is successful. That doesn't mean we think he's great. It means he's our only hope and we hope he succeeds in the only methods available to a GM working for Nutting. Cherington is embarked on a course that, at best, will take several more years to show positive results. And, at worst, will prove an impossible task under the financial constraints imposed by Nutting. And trying to minimize everything he does and proclaim him a terrible GM because you don't like how Nutting operates (none of us do) and you want Nutting's GM to operate in ways not available to Nutting's GM seems very shortsighted.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
______
Some think that is all we have left as Pirate fans. As they watch every last major league ball player salary dumped as soon as they are able to command a salary above LM, all they can do is kick the can down the road and say Cherington will fix it some time in the undefined distant future.
I think it's more accurate to say that we hope Cherington will fix it. Anyone who is a Pirate fan is well aware of the obstacle that is Bob Nutting. We know he will not allow any GM to spend what it takes to bring in established, productive players either through trades or free agency. And we know that any productive player developed through the minors will reach a point where he can leave via free agency and has no incentive to sign a contract tying him to the Nutting organization through his prime MLB years even if Nutting was willing to pay, which he most certainly is not.
So what does that leave? A GM working for Nutting has to acquire young talent that can be developed in the minors to hopefully become productive at the MLB level and supplement that with cast offs from other teams who might possibly become more productive than their past would suggest. And when those good players approach free agency, the GM knows their window with the Nutting organization is closing and he better get what he can for them before they leave. And acquiring talent is very difficult since other teams are unwilling to trade their best prospects. It's easy to identify another team's best prospects. But they won't trade those guys. So you have to look at the next tier and try to identify which ones might be worth getting. And then you're accused of trading for "nobody."
It sounds like an impossible task and it probably is. As fans we can either give up on the Pirates or just hope that Nutting will find a GM who can actually build a winner despite those severe restrictions. Is Cherington that guy? We don't know. We know Huntington wasn't so the change was welcome. Since the draft is so important to how the Pirates acquire talent, it is encouraging that their draft was rated so high. And we can only hope that guys like Park and Wilson and Marcano and some of the other "nobodys" that we never heard of turn out well.
Cherington is trying. We can only hope he is successful. That doesn't mean we think he's great. It means he's our only hope and we hope he succeeds in the only methods available to a GM working for Nutting. Cherington is embarked on a course that, at best, will take several more years to show positive results. And, at worst, will prove an impossible task under the financial constraints imposed by Nutting. And trying to minimize everything he does and proclaim him a terrible GM because you don't like how Nutting operates (none of us do) and you want Nutting's GM to operate in ways not available to Nutting's GM seems very shortsighted.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
79626F6E676B640A0 wrote: Here it is again from Yahoo Sports:
Bryse Wilson Pit - P
FA
10 - Games played
1693
857
2%
44.2 - Innings pitched
2 - Wins
0 - Saves
30 - Strike outs
5.24 - ERA
1.52 - WHIP
_____
Again, I didn't calculate this and I don't know what period of time Yahoo used when they calculated this ERA
I would advise steering clear of Yahoo Sports stats. Their stats on Wilson as a Brave before the trade are grossly inaccurate. ESPN, MLB and Baseball Reference all have the same stats for Wilson which are confirmed by his game log.
Yahoo has him for 22 ERs in 33.2 innings for Atlanta this year. In reality it was 17 ERs in 31.2 innings.
Bryse Wilson Pit - P
FA
10 - Games played
1693
857
2%
44.2 - Innings pitched
2 - Wins
0 - Saves
30 - Strike outs
5.24 - ERA
1.52 - WHIP
_____
Again, I didn't calculate this and I don't know what period of time Yahoo used when they calculated this ERA
I would advise steering clear of Yahoo Sports stats. Their stats on Wilson as a Brave before the trade are grossly inaccurate. ESPN, MLB and Baseball Reference all have the same stats for Wilson which are confirmed by his game log.
Yahoo has him for 22 ERs in 33.2 innings for Atlanta this year. In reality it was 17 ERs in 31.2 innings.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Official Game Thread - 8/8 - Bucs @ Reds
7A575A4B4C5D4A0A09380 wrote: It's pathetic that this is the only way the Pirates organization (along with some fans) think they can win.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
______
Some think that is all we have left as Pirate fans. As they watch every last major league ball player salary dumped as soon as they are able to command a salary above LM, all they can do is kick the can down the road and say Cherington will fix it some time in the undefined distant future.
I think it's more accurate to say that we hope Cherington will fix it. Anyone who is a Pirate fan is well aware of the obstacle that is Bob Nutting. We know he will not allow any GM to spend what it takes to bring in established, productive players either through trades or free agency. And we know that any productive player developed through the minors will reach a point where he can leave via free agency and has no incentive to sign a contract tying him to the Nutting organization through his prime MLB years even if Nutting was willing to pay, which he most certainly is not.
So what does that leave? A GM working for Nutting has to acquire young talent that can be developed in the minors to hopefully become productive at the MLB level and supplement that with cast offs from other teams who might possibly become more productive than their past would suggest. And when those good players approach free agency, the GM knows their window with the Nutting organization is closing and he better get what he can for them before they leave. And acquiring talent is very difficult since other teams are unwilling to trade their best prospects. It's easy to identify another team's best prospects. But they won't trade those guys. So you have to look at the next tier and try to identify which ones might be worth getting. And then you're accused of trading for "nobody."
It sounds like an impossible task and it probably is. As fans we can either give up on the Pirates or just hope that Nutting will find a GM who can actually build a winner despite those severe restrictions. Is Cherington that guy? We don't know. We know Huntington wasn't so the change was welcome. Since the draft is so important to how the Pirates acquire talent, it is encouraging that their draft was rated so high. And we can only hope that guys like Park and Wilson and Marcano and some of the other "nobodys" that we never heard of turn out well.
Cherington is trying. We can only hope he is successful. That doesn't mean we think he's great. It means he's our only hope and we hope he succeeds in the only methods available to a GM working for Nutting. Cherington is embarked on a course that, at best, will take several more years to show positive results. And, at worst, will prove an impossible task under the financial constraints imposed by Nutting. And trying to minimize everything he does and proclaim him a terrible GM because you don't like how Nutting operates (none of us do) and you want Nutting's GM to operate in ways not available to Nutting's GM seems very shortsighted.
Well said Bobster
Our hope for a future winning team lies in the hands of BC and his staff as talent evaluators and finding diamonds in the rough
It would be great and would solve our problems if Mark Cuban was the owner but he is not. As Greenweenie has said this is not a small market issue. Nutting is one of the richest owners in sports.
If he would just support the Pirates with just a ML average payroll we could easily have a competitive team. But when your payroll is $100M below just the average team payroll then you either have to catch lightening in a bottle (highly unlikely) or build through the draft and make productive trades.
All because of an owner.
It's not a market issue. Been down this path. Future guys will get dumped as quickly.
______
Some think that is all we have left as Pirate fans. As they watch every last major league ball player salary dumped as soon as they are able to command a salary above LM, all they can do is kick the can down the road and say Cherington will fix it some time in the undefined distant future.
I think it's more accurate to say that we hope Cherington will fix it. Anyone who is a Pirate fan is well aware of the obstacle that is Bob Nutting. We know he will not allow any GM to spend what it takes to bring in established, productive players either through trades or free agency. And we know that any productive player developed through the minors will reach a point where he can leave via free agency and has no incentive to sign a contract tying him to the Nutting organization through his prime MLB years even if Nutting was willing to pay, which he most certainly is not.
So what does that leave? A GM working for Nutting has to acquire young talent that can be developed in the minors to hopefully become productive at the MLB level and supplement that with cast offs from other teams who might possibly become more productive than their past would suggest. And when those good players approach free agency, the GM knows their window with the Nutting organization is closing and he better get what he can for them before they leave. And acquiring talent is very difficult since other teams are unwilling to trade their best prospects. It's easy to identify another team's best prospects. But they won't trade those guys. So you have to look at the next tier and try to identify which ones might be worth getting. And then you're accused of trading for "nobody."
It sounds like an impossible task and it probably is. As fans we can either give up on the Pirates or just hope that Nutting will find a GM who can actually build a winner despite those severe restrictions. Is Cherington that guy? We don't know. We know Huntington wasn't so the change was welcome. Since the draft is so important to how the Pirates acquire talent, it is encouraging that their draft was rated so high. And we can only hope that guys like Park and Wilson and Marcano and some of the other "nobodys" that we never heard of turn out well.
Cherington is trying. We can only hope he is successful. That doesn't mean we think he's great. It means he's our only hope and we hope he succeeds in the only methods available to a GM working for Nutting. Cherington is embarked on a course that, at best, will take several more years to show positive results. And, at worst, will prove an impossible task under the financial constraints imposed by Nutting. And trying to minimize everything he does and proclaim him a terrible GM because you don't like how Nutting operates (none of us do) and you want Nutting's GM to operate in ways not available to Nutting's GM seems very shortsighted.
Well said Bobster
Our hope for a future winning team lies in the hands of BC and his staff as talent evaluators and finding diamonds in the rough
It would be great and would solve our problems if Mark Cuban was the owner but he is not. As Greenweenie has said this is not a small market issue. Nutting is one of the richest owners in sports.
If he would just support the Pirates with just a ML average payroll we could easily have a competitive team. But when your payroll is $100M below just the average team payroll then you either have to catch lightening in a bottle (highly unlikely) or build through the draft and make productive trades.