Off Season Thread

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:02 pm

That right there might be one of those rare statements that unite people of all Pirates "ideologies." Thank you for it.

2drfischer@gmail.c · Post by **2drfischer@gmail.c** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:02 pm

4542545C5245020E77505A565E5B1954585A370 wrote: I think BC is doing what he can while understanding the dire financial constraints under which he works. Working for Nutting precludes the ability to sign impact FAs or retain his own productive players. That necessitates the unpopular practice of always trading off his productive players to get prospects in return before they can walk away as FAs. And trading away top prospects for veterans with just 1 or 2 years left on their contracts is something few if any MLB teams are now willing to do. So GMs making such trades are forced to settle for 2nd tier prospects at higher levels (i.e., Marcano, Crowe) or prospects at lower levels who have potential (like the return on the Marte trade (a pair of 19 year olds) that could yield their SS of the futire-Peguero). All the innovative training stuff is nice but all teams are trying to develop their prospects as best they can. Such practices do not offset the inability to acquire productive MLB players to fill needs. So I think BC is doing the best he can under the circumstances. [highlight]It's not a blueprint for building a champion but it's the best--and only--strategy available on a Nutting owned team.[/highlight]

And that right there is what it comes down to. The Pirates inability to compete like other comparable franchises is the result of the owner's unwillingness to do what those other franchises do.

So....is there any chance the new labor agreement will have a material impact in making the Pirates more competitive???

I know the Pirates are expecting to get a full season in; that makes me think that both parties are going to have common interest. Of course, the Pirates might not be in agreement....

I'd be floored if there's anything in the new CBA that's all that different from the one that just expired. The big franchise/wealthy owners are in control and the small-time owners like Nutting will do whatever the wealthy guys want.

WildwoodDave2 · Post by **WildwoodDave2** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:00 am

346274606F75656E637446616B676F6A2865060 wrote: I think BC is doing what he can while understanding the dire financial constraints under which he works. Working for Nutting precludes the ability to sign impact FAs or retain his own productive players. That necessitates the unpopular practice of always trading off his productive players to get prospects in return before they can walk away as FAs. And trading away top prospects for veterans with just 1 or 2 years left on their contracts is something few if any MLB teams are now willing to do. So GMs making such trades are forced to settle for 2nd tier prospects at higher levels (i.e., Marcano, Crowe) or prospects at lower levels who have potential (like the return on the Marte trade (a pair of 19 year olds) that could yield their SS of the futire-Peguero). All the innovative training stuff is nice but all teams are trying to develop their prospects as best they can. Such practices do not offset the inability to acquire productive MLB players to fill needs. So I think BC is doing the best he can under the circumstances. [highlight]It's not a blueprint for building a champion but it's the best--and only--strategy available on a Nutting owned team.[/highlight]

And that right there is what it comes down to. The Pirates inability to compete like other comparable franchises is the result of the owner's unwillingness to do what those other franchises do.

So....is there any chance the new labor agreement will have a material impact in making the Pirates more competitive???

I know the Pirates are expecting to get a full season in; that makes me think that both parties are going to have common interest. Of course, the Pirates might not be in agreement....

I'd be floored if there's anything in the new CBA that's all that different from the one that just expired. The big franchise/wealthy owners are in control and the small-time owners like Nutting will do whatever the wealthy guys want.

Are you suggesting that there are owners more wealthy

then Bob? ;D

2drfischer@gmail.c · Post by **2drfischer@gmail.c** » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:43 am

6957525A4951515A7A5F485B0C3E0 wrote: I think BC is doing what he can while understanding the dire financial constraints under which he works. Working for Nutting precludes the ability to sign impact FAs or retain his own productive players. That necessitates the unpopular practice of always trading off his productive players to get prospects in return before they can walk away as FAs. And trading away top prospects for veterans with just 1 or 2 years left on their contracts is something few if any MLB teams are now willing to do. So GMs making such trades are forced to settle for 2nd tier prospects at higher levels (i.e., Marcano, Crowe) or prospects at lower levels who have potential (like the return on the Marte trade (a pair of 19 year olds) that could yield their SS of the futire-Peguero). All the innovative training stuff is nice but all teams are trying to develop their prospects as best they can. Such practices do not offset the inability to acquire productive MLB players to fill needs. So I think BC is doing the best he can under the circumstances. [highlight]It's not a blueprint for building a champion but it's the best--and only--strategy available on a Nutting owned team.[/highlight]

And that right there is what it comes down to. The Pirates inability to compete like other comparable franchises is the result of the owner's unwillingness to do what those other franchises do.

So....is there any chance the new labor agreement will have a material impact in making the Pirates more competitive???

I know the Pirates are expecting to get a full season in; that makes me think that both parties are going to have common interest. Of course, the Pirates might not be in agreement....

I'd be floored if there's anything in the new CBA that's all that different from the one that just expired. The big franchise/wealthy owners are in control and the small-time owners like Nutting will do whatever the wealthy guys want.

Are you suggesting that there are owners more wealthy

then Bob? ;D

Not many of them.

rucker59@gmail.com · Post by **rucker59@gmail.com** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:04 am

Few tidbits

-Jason Williams: “i don’t come back here if there is not organizational commitment to win a championship. I came back to Pittsburgh because baseball and the Pirates are my first love, and Bob and I share a goal and commitment to bring a world championship to Pittsburgh.” ….

”we do not expect to lose any games to the lock out”.

“Working on new video board”

-BC: “I’m not here to win 50% of the games….to win a championship we need 35-40 good major league ready players; we’ve had 5 or 6 good players. To win a championship we need 35/40 good and ready platers. We will make trades to ensure we have lots and lots of good players “

“I’m not thinking about building a .500 team. We want to be a playoff team.”!

Me: “Ben, you’ve been a champion, you have the pedigree - can you win a World Championship in Pittsburgh, is this a realistic goal for the fans?

Ben: (emphatically) “YES, YES….YES. It won’t be easy, but that is the goal and YES we can!”

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:53 am

505741494750171B62454F434B4E0C414D4F220 wrote: Few tidbits

-Jason Williams: “i don’t come back here if there is not organizational commitment to win a championship. I came back to Pittsburgh because baseball and the Pirates are my first love, and Bob and I share a goal and commitment to bring a world championship to Pittsburgh.” ….

”we do not expect to lose any games to the lock out”.

“Working on new video board”

-BC: “I’m not here to win 50% of the games….to win a championship we need 35-40 good major league ready players; we’ve had 5 or 6 good players. To win a championship we need 35/40 good and ready platers. We will make trades to ensure we have lots and lots of good players “

“I’m not thinking about building a .500 team. We want to be a playoff team.”!

Me: “Ben, you’ve been a champion, you have the pedigree - can you win a World Championship in Pittsburgh, is this a realistic goal for the fans?

Ben: (emphatically) “YES, YES….YES. It won’t be easy, but that is the goal and YES we can!”

What are you doing fella? Writing a good sermon? ;D ;D ;D ;D

rucker59@gmail.com · Post by **rucker59@gmail.com** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:42 am

25040C250E06610 wrote: Few tidbits

-Jason Williams: “i don’t come back here if there is not organizational commitment to win a championship. I came back to Pittsburgh because baseball and the Pirates are my first love, and Bob and I share a goal and commitment to bring a world championship to Pittsburgh.” ….

”we do not expect to lose any games to the lock out”.

“Working on new video board”

-BC: “I’m not here to win 50% of the games….to win a championship we need 35-40 good major league ready players; we’ve had 5 or 6 good players. To win a championship we need 35/40 good and ready platers. We will make trades to ensure we have lots and lots of good players “

“I’m not thinking about building a .500 team. We want to be a playoff team.”!

Me: “Ben, you’ve been a champion, you have the pedigree - can you win a World Championship in Pittsburgh, is this a realistic goal for the fans?

Ben: (emphatically) “YES, YES….YES. It won’t be easy, but that is the goal and YES we can!”

What are you doing fella? Writing a good sermon? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Brother Possum - the boilers are just starting to warm up!

WildwoodDave2 · Post by **WildwoodDave2** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:45 pm

0A2B230A21294E0 wrote: Few tidbits

-Jason Williams: “i don’t come back here if there is not organizational commitment to win a championship. I came back to Pittsburgh because baseball and the Pirates are my first love, and Bob and I share a goal and commitment to bring a world championship to Pittsburgh.” ….

”we do not expect to lose any games to the lock out”.

“Working on new video board”

-BC: “I’m not here to win 50% of the games….to win a championship we need 35-40 good major league ready players; we’ve had 5 or 6 good players. To win a championship we need 35/40 good and ready platers. We will make trades to ensure we have lots and lots of good players “

“I’m not thinking about building a .500 team. We want to be a playoff team.”!

Me: “Ben, you’ve been a champion, you have the pedigree - can you win a World Championship in Pittsburgh, is this a realistic goal for the fans?

Ben: (emphatically) “YES, YES….YES. It won’t be easy, but that is the goal and YES we can!”

What are you doing fella? Writing a good sermon? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mets hire Buck Showalter as their manager

Surgnbuck · Post by **Surgnbuck** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:38 pm

77 seasons between Showalter, Baker, and LaRussa.

GreenWeenie · Post by **GreenWeenie** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:09 pm

And, a half-million years. That's Cocoon Management there. How do you think they'll do?

Depends!