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Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:05 am
by 3pirates3
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:09 pm
by 3pirates3
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:22 pm
by Wildwoodcoach
Glad to hear it.Hopefully he can stay healthy
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 4:37 pm
by Ecbucs
Only Bart, Cruz and Reynolds had better offensive stats than Cutch last year. He is still needed on this team and I'm glad they brought him back.
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 5:16 pm
by JollyRoger8
Surgnbuck wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:33 pm
JollyRoger8 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 1:00 am
Guardians just traded Josh Naylor to Arizona for a RHP (Ciccone) that had an ERA of 6.66
Meanwhile the Pirates traded Ortiz a starting pitcher with a 3.32 ERA and a 100 MPH fastball plus 2 highly regarded LHP prospects. For a 1B with mediocre power and terrible splits. I don’t really care that Horwitz has 6 years of control. Skenes will be gone by then.
How in the world did BC screw up this deal with Cleveland.
Just when you think the Pirates cannot go any cheaper, they manage to find a way. Josh Naylor was the heart and soul of the Guardians with power and a gold glove. He would have been a leader on this team. More of a leader than Cutch.
Okay, not defending necessarily, but come on. "Highly regarded LHP prospects"...by who? You show me one instance on this board, on anything that isn't done by a Pirate-centric website, that says these guys were "highly regarded". I dare say there isn't a single mfer on this board who knew those prospects before the trade occured. They just looked at some arbitrary "ratings" board and saw "15 and 17". One guy just made it to Greensboro, the other guy hasn't even played a season of rookie ball, he was part of the last draft. It will be a minimum of 3 years before these "highly regarded" guys strut their stuff at PNC at their all star level, that they're certain to attain because BC doesn't know what he's doing.
Also, it wasn't just the pitcher Arizona traded, it was also a competitive Round B pick also. Cleveland turned right around and signed Santana, for basically the same money Naylor is expected to get either by contract or arbitration. Most assuredly, Naylor's team knows next season he'll be in high demand, what with his only other competition for big bucks being Vlad Jr. at first base, and Cleveland knew dang well he's testing free agency. Naylor will be next in line after Vlad Jr. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Cleveland seem to have a pretty good track record with pitchers?
I just hope everyone who has automatically flushed this trade as a bad one fesses up if they're wrong. I myself said I'm skeptical, because I don't like the idea of trading a pitcher who has already gone through his regression to the league period, overcame that, and now looks to be a solid guy the rest of the way. He's still only a 5 inning pitcher. He's still going to be pretty much a swingman on better rosters. But I'm not grading this trade until we've actually seen how the players in it fare over the next season or two. I'd have much rather saw an everyday player in return with at least two years. But I'm willing to wait before I stamp my "grade".
So if I'm connecting the dots correctly, it appears you are saying the Pirates could have had Naylor for Ortiz? That would have been a rip off and I would be thrashing BC had he made that deal, because yes, years of control mean something, and not just to the Pirates, but to every other organization in MLB.
I stand by my comment that Kennedy is a highly regarded prospect. The Pirates paid over slot money $1M to get him and he has had excellent stats in his 2 years in the organization. Hartle did not have a good first season but I would I would not pin the label of a bust with only a few weeks if play under his belt.
I would not have traded Ortiz for either Horwitz or Naylor straight up. The bottom line is that Horwitz is not going to move the needle towards getting the Pirates to the playoffs. Naylor might have, though it would have been highly unlikely that he would resign with the Pirates, we would at least improved the team.
Ask yourself a question:
Are the Pirates a better team today than when the season ended?
The answer is no. Meanwhile most of the quality FA that the Pirates could have signed are off the board and the clock is ticking on our time with Skenes.
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 5:26 pm
by JollyRoger8
Regarding Cutch; as most Pirate fans, I am very happy that he is back. I find it disgusting that Nutting didn’t give him a raise over the same 5M salary he has had. He was one of our better offensive performers
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:12 pm
by Surgnbuck
JollyRoger8 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 5:26 pm
Regarding Cutch; as most Pirate fans, I am very happy that he is back. I find it disgusting that Nutting didn’t give him a raise over the same 5M salary he has had. He was one of our better offensive performers
He's a free agent. He didn't have to sign. I consider the fact he's getting 5 million is quite the raise over the zero million he was getting. His WAR decreased, his BA decreased, his OBP decreased, his walks decreased, his OPS decreased, his OPS+ decreased, his SO increased, his doubles decreased. His HR's increased by 8, but his RBI only increased by 7, and all of this was done with 42 more AB's. Being one of the better offensive performers for the Pirates last year is a pretty low bar.
I love the signing, I love Cutch, he can play for the Pirates as long as he wants. WTF do you find so disgusting that he's getting paid the same amount of money when he clearly was exceptionally less productive? If you'd be honest with the situation, it's already turned into a charity case. He doesn't bring fans into the gate. It's a feel good story, and that's okay with me, because that's pretty much all the Bucs have going for them, along with hope.
Be happy BOB at least ponied up for him. Be disgusted about not ponying up for some relief help, a right fielder, a proven first baseman. That's legit.
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:17 pm
by Doc
I’m lukewarm on the McCutchen signing. The DH should be a true thumper who can provide the power and the RBIs that typically come with that position. McCutchen isn’t that type of player. In addition, it’s fairly likely that his production is going to be less than last year. I like McCutchen, and I’ll always be appreciative of the player he was in his first nine years here, but I could accept his signing a lot easier if we added a 30 HR guy to join him in the line-up.
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:20 pm
by 3pirates3
Doc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:17 pm
I’m lukewarm on the McCutchen signing. The DH should be a true thumper who can provide better than 25-30 HRs and drive in 90+. McCutchen isn’t that type of player. In addition, it’s fairly likely that his production is going to be less than last year. I like McCutchen but I could accept his signing a lot easier if we added a 30 HR guy to join him in the line-up.
I doubt they would've added someone like that with or without McCutchen.
Re: 2024 Off-Season Thread
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:22 pm
by Doc
3pirates3 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:20 pm
Doc wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:17 pm
I’m lukewarm on the McCutchen signing. The DH should be a true thumper who can provide better than 25-30 HRs and drive in 90+. McCutchen isn’t that type of player. In addition, it’s fairly likely that his production is going to be less than last year. I like McCutchen but I could accept his signing a lot easier if we added a 30 HR guy to join him in the line-up.
I doubt they would've added someone like that with or without McCutchen.
No truer words . . .