75776D6B7D180 wrote: I'm guessing some people are angry but the vast majority have just tuned it out. You actually have to search to find anything about it. Imagine if this were the NFL. You wouldn't be able to open your eyelids in the morning without being bombarded. For baseball, almost nothing.
Agree with all.
I'm not typical. I go to ESPN.com first, then MLB.com. so, I focus on baseball first this time of year.
The next CBA and the future of MLB
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
The next CBA and the future of MLB
7F41444C5F47474C6C495E4D1A280 wrote: Venting
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"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
Don't know if they are angry. Maybe apathetic would be a better word
apathetic fits me. I want it to be over and I do read up on it but I won't really think much about the baseball season until spring training starts. Part of that I'm sure is because I am old and have lived through more of these labor negotiations than I want to admit.
=====
"If we don't reach a deal by _______, we're going to cancel _____ games."
Day comes. Then it's
"Now, if we reach a deal by _________, we won't have to cancel games."
Day comes. Then, its something else.
BOB must be in charge. Or, maybe FC's doing some work for MLB. (Anyone know what he's up to these days?)
Just shut up. Negotiate. Then, tells us what you did, not what you're going to do, maybe. With fingers crossed behind your back.
Trying to make us think that you're working hard isn't convincing anybody.
Act like adults. Tell us when you're done.
It's hard for me to believe that people who earn the kind of money that they do go about their work this way.
No wonder people are angry.
Don't know if they are angry. Maybe apathetic would be a better word
apathetic fits me. I want it to be over and I do read up on it but I won't really think much about the baseball season until spring training starts. Part of that I'm sure is because I am old and have lived through more of these labor negotiations than I want to admit.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
The next CBA and the future of MLB
726A686F6F78696E737264010 wrote: Doc: So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players? If I believed that you made too much money in your job, could I start a movement to limit your income?
Yes, I would hope everyone does. Everything and everybody must have limits, without limits we will live in a lawless chaotic world/society.
You bet I believe many CEO’s and others are overpaid. Real competition would control all of this, but unions and monopolies stop real competition. Government has totally failed in the area of monopolies and unions that is the only thing we need government involvement in business and because of corruption they are failing to control these entities.
You have a right to start a campaign to limit my income but I don’t think you would have any credibility or success there. Most people have enough common sense to realize when they are getting gouged. But feel free to start your campaign today.
Doc: If your boss offered you a salary of $300 million, or even $5 million, would you turn it down because some might think you to be greedy? How much more would have to be offered before you told your boss that was enough?
I can’t believe some people have no self awareness. Monarchy went away sometime after the French Revolution but many yearn to bring them back, at their own peril. I would never have the nerve to ask for such a ridiculous salary nor would I hire a agent to negotiate for me. How much can anyone indulge themselves.
Pretty sure 1/2 million a year guaranteed for 10 years would work for me no matter how bad a job I did after I sign the contract. I can't believe any fool would give a person such a contract, only in baseball.
doc: I've attended many major league baseball games and have yet to pay a single player. Neither has any other fan. We've paid the owners, who've then decided what to do with that money, which was theirs to spend as they saw fit. None of us had any determination, authority, or vote as to how much went to the players
That’s cold, any owner/player who doesn’t care about the fans should fail, that attitude should be troubling to everyone.
To me this is all about taking back control of the game. Attendance has been dropping over the years even as our population continues to grow.
When a owner, player or a coach or a line worker becomes only interested in their wellbeing then they lose some of their humanity and society starts breaking down. It is best reflected in our society by marriage. If a person is only interested in themselves then society starts breaking down. I think that‘s what missing in sports today. Players have absolutely no loyalty to their team/organization, their fans to anyone except themselves. I’m no saint but this discussion goes to the heart of the matter. Players, owners and some fans have lost all prospective. Players and Owners have lost all respect for fan. It's time we demand some.
I know we're all entitled to our opinions, but they're easier to accept and consider when they're not uninformed and naive. It sounds to me that you would prefer to live within a socialistic economic system. While socialism has some positive aspects, like all other systems, it has it's downside as well, like all other systems. When examining the costs and benefits, I think I prefer a free market to the one you would have us live under.
In the end, all economic systems are a blend of each other. That's why with baseball, I'm in favor of the socialistic notion of all franchises being required to have the same payroll each year. I admit that the cost of that rule would be to limit player incomes but, the benefit would be that 30 teams would have a better chance of competing for a title rather than about 15. The competition in baseball should come primarily on the field.
Yes, I would hope everyone does. Everything and everybody must have limits, without limits we will live in a lawless chaotic world/society.
You bet I believe many CEO’s and others are overpaid. Real competition would control all of this, but unions and monopolies stop real competition. Government has totally failed in the area of monopolies and unions that is the only thing we need government involvement in business and because of corruption they are failing to control these entities.
You have a right to start a campaign to limit my income but I don’t think you would have any credibility or success there. Most people have enough common sense to realize when they are getting gouged. But feel free to start your campaign today.
Doc: If your boss offered you a salary of $300 million, or even $5 million, would you turn it down because some might think you to be greedy? How much more would have to be offered before you told your boss that was enough?
I can’t believe some people have no self awareness. Monarchy went away sometime after the French Revolution but many yearn to bring them back, at their own peril. I would never have the nerve to ask for such a ridiculous salary nor would I hire a agent to negotiate for me. How much can anyone indulge themselves.
Pretty sure 1/2 million a year guaranteed for 10 years would work for me no matter how bad a job I did after I sign the contract. I can't believe any fool would give a person such a contract, only in baseball.
doc: I've attended many major league baseball games and have yet to pay a single player. Neither has any other fan. We've paid the owners, who've then decided what to do with that money, which was theirs to spend as they saw fit. None of us had any determination, authority, or vote as to how much went to the players
That’s cold, any owner/player who doesn’t care about the fans should fail, that attitude should be troubling to everyone.
To me this is all about taking back control of the game. Attendance has been dropping over the years even as our population continues to grow.
When a owner, player or a coach or a line worker becomes only interested in their wellbeing then they lose some of their humanity and society starts breaking down. It is best reflected in our society by marriage. If a person is only interested in themselves then society starts breaking down. I think that‘s what missing in sports today. Players have absolutely no loyalty to their team/organization, their fans to anyone except themselves. I’m no saint but this discussion goes to the heart of the matter. Players, owners and some fans have lost all prospective. Players and Owners have lost all respect for fan. It's time we demand some.
I know we're all entitled to our opinions, but they're easier to accept and consider when they're not uninformed and naive. It sounds to me that you would prefer to live within a socialistic economic system. While socialism has some positive aspects, like all other systems, it has it's downside as well, like all other systems. When examining the costs and benefits, I think I prefer a free market to the one you would have us live under.
In the end, all economic systems are a blend of each other. That's why with baseball, I'm in favor of the socialistic notion of all franchises being required to have the same payroll each year. I admit that the cost of that rule would be to limit player incomes but, the benefit would be that 30 teams would have a better chance of competing for a title rather than about 15. The competition in baseball should come primarily on the field.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
The next CBA and the future of MLB
476A67767160773734050 wrote:
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
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WildwoodDave2
The next CBA and the future of MLB
643224303F25353E332416313B373F3A7835560 wrote:
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Agreed.
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Agreed.
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Bobster21
The next CBA and the future of MLB
055345515E44545F524577505A565E5B1954370 wrote:
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Yes, but MLB is one business. It's not 30 disassociated businesses. Theoretically there could be a pay scale for the MLB business regardless of where in the country any particular franchise was located. And players would be free to seek higher compensation in some other business if they chose (like movie star or corrupt politician or OBN moderator
) When I worked for the govt, I was free to explore our free market system for higher compensation in some other line of work. The fact that there were salary limitations in my employment did not compromise the free market system. Not would it in MLB.
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Yes, but MLB is one business. It's not 30 disassociated businesses. Theoretically there could be a pay scale for the MLB business regardless of where in the country any particular franchise was located. And players would be free to seek higher compensation in some other business if they chose (like movie star or corrupt politician or OBN moderator
) When I worked for the govt, I was free to explore our free market system for higher compensation in some other line of work. The fact that there were salary limitations in my employment did not compromise the free market system. Not would it in MLB.The next CBA and the future of MLB
5A777A6B6C7D6A2A29180 wrote:
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Yes, but MLB is one business. It's not 30 disassociated businesses. Theoretically there could be a pay scale for the MLB business regardless of where in the country any particular franchise was located. And players would be free to seek higher compensation in some other business if they chose (like movie star or corrupt politician or OBN moderator ) When I worked for the govt, I was free to explore our free market system for higher compensation in some other line of work. The fact that there were salary limitations in my employment did not compromise the free market system. Not would it in MLB.
there is a defacto pay scale for players until they become free agents. Teams and players have a pretty good idea what salaries are going to be through arbitration years since most are based on precedent.
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Yes, but MLB is one business. It's not 30 disassociated businesses. Theoretically there could be a pay scale for the MLB business regardless of where in the country any particular franchise was located. And players would be free to seek higher compensation in some other business if they chose (like movie star or corrupt politician or OBN moderator
) When I worked for the govt, I was free to explore our free market system for higher compensation in some other line of work. The fact that there were salary limitations in my employment did not compromise the free market system. Not would it in MLB. there is a defacto pay scale for players until they become free agents. Teams and players have a pretty good idea what salaries are going to be through arbitration years since most are based on precedent.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
The next CBA and the future of MLB
634E43525544531310210 wrote:
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Yes, but MLB is one business. It's not 30 disassociated businesses. Theoretically there could be a pay scale for the MLB business regardless of where in the country any particular franchise was located. And players would be free to seek higher compensation in some other business if they chose (like movie star or corrupt politician or OBN moderator ) When I worked for the govt, I was free to explore our free market system for higher compensation in some other line of work. [highlight]The fact that there were salary limitations in my employment did not compromise the free market system.[/highlight] Not would it in MLB.
Again, I agree. But you were at least free to try to move into a different line of work, or to even create your own business, in order to increase your income. You weren't going to be limited to the income you were earning.
But Skinnyhorse is in favor of limiting all people in all industries in what they earn, including capping the amount of money he himself could earn. I've never spoken to anyone who would agree to cap his/her own income. Also, he still hasn't indicated who would be in charge of setting those limits.
So you believe that baseball players should have their incomes limited? Who decides what the limit should be? Does that also apply to other workers or do you want to just discriminate against baseball players?
Doc, [highlight]some industries and businesses have pay scales and salary ranges.[/highlight] I had a long career with the federal govt. We aspired to be promoted to a higher grade to be put in a higher salary range. And you could move up in that range by performance or years of service. So salaries were limited by the established pay structure. The govt isn't the only employer that follows rules for pay structure. I don't have a problem with the idea that every member of a baseball team need not be entitled to a theoretically limitless salary. In baseball, the only structured salary is the minimum. Beyond that, it's all you can get. I wouldn't mind seeing some limits put in place based on ranges determined by performance and years of service. It will never happen but I don't think the concept is unreasonable.
Agreed. But under our free market system, little stands in the way of any worker pursuing opportunities in other markets that would enable him/her to earn more. We're free to move about the economy in pursuit of higher compensation, in all of its forms. We're not bound by any one or any entity to stay where we are.
All people, wherever they live in this world, make decisions first based upon satisfying their own self-interests. That doesn't necessarily mean seeking more money. For some, like those who do social work, their self-interest is best satisfied in helping others over improving their own income.
Yes, but MLB is one business. It's not 30 disassociated businesses. Theoretically there could be a pay scale for the MLB business regardless of where in the country any particular franchise was located. And players would be free to seek higher compensation in some other business if they chose (like movie star or corrupt politician or OBN moderator
) When I worked for the govt, I was free to explore our free market system for higher compensation in some other line of work. [highlight]The fact that there were salary limitations in my employment did not compromise the free market system.[/highlight] Not would it in MLB. Again, I agree. But you were at least free to try to move into a different line of work, or to even create your own business, in order to increase your income. You weren't going to be limited to the income you were earning.
But Skinnyhorse is in favor of limiting all people in all industries in what they earn, including capping the amount of money he himself could earn. I've never spoken to anyone who would agree to cap his/her own income. Also, he still hasn't indicated who would be in charge of setting those limits.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
We need to finish dead last a few more times until we get that being tight with players' pay doesn't work well for us. Then again, neither has paying them. 
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WildwoodDave2
The next CBA and the future of MLB
192C3B3B30093B3B30373B5E0 wrote: We need to finish dead last a few more times until we get that being tight with players' pay doesn't work well for us. Then again, neither has paying them.
Opening day postponed to April 14 with second week of baseball season canceled.Credits keep adding up for Surg
Opening day postponed to April 14 with second week of baseball season canceled.Credits keep adding up for Surg