OnlyBucs

1331223F3C393E31122533333F500 wrote: 22 games in, and our starting pitchers have combined for ZERO wins.



Not all of the losses were their fault (today, for example), but for the vast majority of those 22 starts, the Pirates starter did not deserve a win.
Some of that is due to Shelton refusing to let them go 5 innings when they have a lead and are pitching well. But it's mostly because either the SPs pitched poorly or the Pirates won in later innings after the SP was gone. IMHO Shelton is trying to make a name for himself as a very progressive, innovative manager by his use of the BP. In Quintana's last 2 starts it looked like Shelton needlessly pulled him to ensure he would not get a win. So some of this may be by design.

7F525F4E49584F0F0C3D0 wrote: 22 games in, and our starting pitchers have combined for ZERO wins.



Not all of the losses were their fault (today, for example), but for the vast majority of those 22 starts, the Pirates starter did not deserve a win.
Some of that is due to Shelton refusing to let them go 5 innings when they have a lead and are pitching well. But it's mostly because either the SPs pitched poorly or the Pirates won in later innings after the SP was gone. IMHO Shelton is trying to make a name for himself as a very progressive, innovative manager by his use of the BP. In Quintana's last 2 starts it looked like Shelton needlessly pulled him to ensure he would not get a win. So some of this may be by design.
He is making a name for himself alright!

Honest yes or no answer question here. How many people actually want or think Derek Shelton should be managing this team in the next 3 years between right now and 2025 when all the young guys are supposed to be up and when this Pirates team is supposed to be good and be a playoff team?? My answer is a resounding NO!!!

6042514C4F4A4D42615640404C230 wrote: 22 games in, and our starting pitchers have combined for ZERO wins.



Not all of the losses were their fault (today, for example), but for the vast majority of those 22 starts, the Pirates starter did not deserve a win. Don’t expect it to get much better anytime soon. With the way Shelton manages pulling guys after 5 whether they are doing good or not combined with both a lack of talent in the rotation and this offense not being able to score runs early in the game and give one of these starters a 4 or 5 run cushion they can easily go another 15-20 games without a starter winning a game. Good news is they play the Reds who are just absolutely horrific 8 times in the next 2 weeks or so but if they can’t find a way to scratch out at least 1 or 2 wins from a starter in those games with the Reds then who knows when it will and if it might ever happen this season. I’m kinda half joking when I say “never” this season but as bad as this starting pitching is combined with Shelton’s bizarre terrible managing this streak of a starter not winning a game could definitely reach a record breaking number of games.

1C3B2A2E2B36093D2A2B2B364F0 wrote: Honest yes or no answer question here. How many people actually want or think Derek Shelton should be managing this team in the next 3 years between right now and 2025 when all the young guys are supposed to be up and when this Pirates team is supposed to be good and be a playoff team?? My answer is a resounding NO!!!
Of course not. Right now Shelton is just one of the problems on a bad team. If they improve the talent to the extent that they can legitimately compete, he will be the major problem.

If he manages the same way. He may be following management edit to protect arms. We don't know. That said, he does seem to do odd things that work against winning games.

Edict, that is.

37352F293F5A0 wrote: If he manages the same way. He may be following management edit to protect arms. We don't know. That said, he does seem to do odd things that work against winning games.
It's more than just how he handles the pitchers though. It's the often bizarre lineups and constantly resting players, especially after a good game. Last year they were the only team not to sweep a series and on many instances after winning the first 2 games, he rested his top players in the series finale. He's got a lineup that lacks power in the middle but bats the slow Vogelbach leadoff where more than a solo HR requires the bottom of the order to be on base. He starts Tucker and VanMeter nearly every day and even batted the light hitting VanMeter 5th once. Chavis' PT seems to depend on whether or not he's hot. If he's hot, he sits. Shelton seems indifferent towards winning, as if these are ST games and he wants to play guys or rest guys or put guys in different spits in the order with no regard for how it effects the outcome of the games.