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Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
by Doc
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:00 am
by Wildwoodcoach
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
You didn't have a chance to follow last nights game? Consider yourself lucky
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:14 pm
by Bobster
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
Allow me to summarize:
A. Bad pitching
B. Bad hitting
C. Bad defense
D. Bad base running
E. All of the above
E.
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:22 pm
by Doc
Wildwoodcoach wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:00 am
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
You didn't have a chance to follow last nights game? Consider yourself lucky
Yeah, the boys laid an egg, and I picked the right night to not see it. But there's comfort in knowing that those kinds of games happen to every team a few times each season so I try not to get worked up over it when it happens. But what caught my attention was the contrast between the two players, how hard one plays while the other appears to be completely disinterested.
His immense talent is wasted far too often because of his unwillingness to play all out. If he's going to continue to give the lack of effort that he does, at the very least he must be taken off of shortstop, maybe off the field altogether, and just serve as the DH. And if I could find the right trade for him, I'd do it without hesitation. I just don't think he's ever going to reach his potential and will always be a defensive liability.
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:22 pm
by Doc
Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:14 pm
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
Allow me to summarize:
A. Bad pitching
B. Bad hitting
C. Bad defense
D. Bad base running
E. All of the above
E.
But other than that it was a good game?
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:02 pm
by Bobster
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:22 pm
Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:14 pm
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
Allow me to summarize:
A. Bad pitching
B. Bad hitting
C. Bad defense
D. Bad base running
E. All of the above
E.
But other than that it was a good game?
"But did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:18 pm
by Bobster
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:22 pm
Wildwoodcoach wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:00 am
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:37 am
Didn't have a chance to follow the game last night, only saw the video this morning. The difference between our Cruz and their De La Cruz in how the two of them play the game is stark.
You didn't have a chance to follow last nights game? Consider yourself lucky
Yeah, the boys laid an egg, and I picked the right night to not see it. But there's comfort in knowing that those kinds of games happen to every team a few times each season so I try not to get worked up over it when it happens. But what caught my attention was the contrast between the two players, how hard one plays while the other appears to be completely disinterested.
His immense talent is wasted far too often because of his unwillingness to play all out. If he's going to continue to give the lack of effort that he does, at the very least he must be taken off of shortstop, maybe off the field altogether, and just serve as the DH. And if I could find the right trade for him, I'd do it without hesitation. I just don't think he's ever going to reach his potential and will always be a defensive liability.
Cruz does not appear to see his own playing in the context of being part of a team. He likes hitting the ball far and enjoys watching it go. He's not focused on getting as many bases as possible for the team. It's just personally rewarding to hit like that. He likes playing SS and showing off his arm. He's a very poor SS and often makes bad throws. I'm sure that frustrates him but probably not because it's hurting the team. He just wants to be the star SS. He likes to see if he can use his speed to go from 2B to 3B when the SS has the ball and he's not forced to run. It's fun if you're safe. It hurts the team if you're out and it's an ill-advised risk. But that doesn't seem to concern him. It's just fun to try.
I don't think he's doing that because of a bad attitude. I suspect he's been coddled because of his unique skills ever since he began playing baseball. I doubt that anyone ever got through to him that success is measured by the team's performance and not his personal accomplishments. He looks like a big kid having fun. If it helps the team-great. If it doesn't-so what?
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 8:49 pm
by Doc
Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 2:18 pm
Doc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:22 pm
Wildwoodcoach wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:00 am
You didn't have a chance to follow last nights game? Consider yourself lucky
Yeah, the boys laid an egg, and I picked the right night to not see it. But there's comfort in knowing that those kinds of games happen to every team a few times each season so I try not to get worked up over it when it happens. But what caught my attention was the contrast between the two players, how hard one plays while the other appears to be completely disinterested.
His immense talent is wasted far too often because of his unwillingness to play all out. If he's going to continue to give the lack of effort that he does, at the very least he must be taken off of shortstop, maybe off the field altogether, and just serve as the DH. And if I could find the right trade for him, I'd do it without hesitation. I just don't think he's ever going to reach his potential and will always be a defensive liability.
Cruz does not appear to see his own playing in the context of being part of a team. He likes hitting the ball far and enjoys watching it go. He's not focused on getting as many bases as possible for the team. It's just personally rewarding to hit like that. He likes playing SS and showing off his arm. He's a very poor SS and often makes bad throws. I'm sure that frustrates him but probably not because it's hurting the team. He just wants to be the star SS. He likes to see if he can use his speed to go from 2B to 3B when the SS has the ball and he's not forced to run. It's fun if you're safe. It hurts the team if you're out and it's an ill-advised risk. But that doesn't seem to concern him. It's just fun to try.
I don't think he's doing that because of a bad attitude. I suspect he's been coddled because of his unique skills ever since he began playing baseball. I doubt that anyone ever got through to him that success is measured by the team's performance and not his personal accomplishments. He looks like a big kid having fun. If it helps the team-great. If it doesn't-so what?
I think you nailed it. In a word, it’s selfishness. In just this season alone it’s easy to see he’s not in tune with the team concept. If that’s the case, he doesn’t belong here. Let him go elsewhere and undermine that team.
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:29 pm
by Bobster
I would like to see someone in leadership get through to Cruz. And that probably means a change in leadership. Shelton and his coaches are worse than useless. They're counterproductive. I see Cruz's problem as more ignorance than selfishness. Because I don't think he consciously decides he doesn't care about the team. I believe he just simply doesn't get it. He may not be very bright, I don't know. I would like to see someone teach him that there is more to a team than the sum of its individual performances. Players contribute to the team in a variety of ways. Sometimes as much as what they don't do as what they do. He can help the team more by not playing SS, by not running into ill-advised outs, by not lazily admiring his hit instead of sprinting for extra bases. I think he's accustomed to being the freak on the field at every level he's played and people just marveling at his abilities. I doubt he's ever grasped the concept of just being one of the players all doing the best they can to obtain a favorable outcome for the team. Maybe I'm wrong and he just doesn't care. But he needs to mature as a player and I'd rather it be here than with another organization laughing at the Pirates for another failed attempt to develop a player.
Re: Official Game Thread - 8/24 - Bucs vs Reds
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:40 pm
by Ecbucs
Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:29 pm
I would like to see someone in leadership get through to Cruz. And that probably means a change in leadership. Shelton and his coaches are worse than useless. They're counterproductive. I see Cruz's problem as more ignorance than selfishness. Because I don't think he consciously decides he doesn't care about the team. I believe he just simply doesn't get it. He may not be very bright, I don't know. I would like to see someone teach him that there is more to a team than the sum of its individual performances. Players contribute to the team in a variety of ways. Sometimes as much as what they don't do as what they do. He can help the team more by
not playing SS, by not running into ill-advised outs, by not lazily admiring his hit instead of sprinting for extra bases. I think he's accustomed to being the freak on the field at every level he's played and people just marveling at his abilities. I doubt he's ever grasped the concept of just being one of the players all doing the best they can to obtain a favorable outcome for
the team. Maybe I'm wrong and he just doesn't care. But he needs to mature as a player and I'd rather it be here than with another organization laughing at the Pirates for another failed attempt to develop a player.
to me he does seem to care and to like his team mates. He seems to be happy and excited when the team has a victory celebration. I wouldn't trade him unless somebody made a very good offer. They do need to figure out if he is going to get another shot at shortstop or next year or if they are going to move him to another position. IMO, that has to be decided before spring training.