7D656760607766617C7D6B0E0 wrote: Yep this is why this team is going to miss the playoffs this season games like this tonight. Let's keep trotting Locke out there. Why not give him 10 more starts to close out the year. This game tonight is strictly on Hurdle for giving the ball to Locke once again when he had no business starting this game.
I'm thinking Locke and Vogelsong were thrust upon Clint as a deadline gift. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think this is on Clint.
No this is on Hurdle I've seen him do this many times over the past few years. He just doen't seem to understand every win is precious and could be the difference in going to the a five game playoff or a one game playoff. I've seen guys lots of managers bring in a righty to pitch to a righthanded hitter and switch to a lefthanded pitcher for a lefty in the 5th and 6th innings to perserve a lead. I can't remember ever seeing Hurdle do this especially in a regular season game. He just doesn't value games like I think he should and most other managers do. Now I've seen guys like McClendon over manage but we've got the other end of the spectrum here. Mac was the worst manager I ever saw.
I couldn't agree more. Mac was entirely clueless. But I also don't think much of Hurdle. He's only as good as his players. He's been fortunate these past 3 years because so many players performed well. But Hurdle doesn't do things to help. When he no longer had Cutch playing like a HOFer, Hurdle froze like a deer in the headlights and refused to do anything but bat him 3rd until sitting him 104 games into the season. Hurdle manages the pitching staff by rote. He has Locke and Vogelsong so he might as well start them. Even though common sense says otherwise. He doesn't like to remove a struggling starter before pitching 5 innings. Even if the game is lost by then. The players like him. But there's more to managing then being a good motivator and being liked. Once the game starts, the manager has to make decisions that can influence the outcome of the game. And that seems to be Hurdle's weakness.
Locke is so frustrating
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Locke is so frustrating
4E636E7F78697E3E3D0C0 wrote: Yep this is why this team is going to miss the playoffs this season games like this tonight. Let's keep trotting Locke out there. Why not give him 10 more starts to close out the year. This game tonight is strictly on Hurdle for giving the ball to Locke once again when he had no business starting this game.
I'm thinking Locke and Vogelsong were thrust upon Clint as a deadline gift. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think this is on Clint.
No this is on Hurdle I've seen him do this many times over the past few years. He just doen't seem to understand every win is precious and could be the difference in going to the a five game playoff or a one game playoff. I've seen guys lots of managers bring in a righty to pitch to a righthanded hitter and switch to a lefthanded pitcher for a lefty in the 5th and 6th innings to perserve a lead. I can't remember ever seeing Hurdle do this especially in a regular season game. He just doesn't value games like I think he should and most other managers do. Now I've seen guys like McClendon over manage but we've got the other end of the spectrum here. Mac was the worst manager I ever saw.
I couldn't agree more. Mac was entirely clueless. But I also don't think much of Hurdle. He's only as good as his players. He's been fortunate these past 3 years because so many players performed well. But Hurdle doesn't do things to help. When he no longer had Cutch playing like a HOFer, Hurdle froze like a deer in the headlights and refused to do anything but bat him 3rd until sitting him 104 games into the season. Hurdle manages the pitching staff by rote. He has Locke and Vogelsong so he might as well start them. Even though common sense says otherwise. He doesn't like to remove a struggling starter before pitching 5 innings. Even if the game is lost by then. The players like him. But there's more to managing then being a good motivator and being liked. Once the game starts, the manager has to make decisions that can influence the outcome of the game. And that seems to be Hurdle's weakness.
And as I pointed out last night this is why I question if Clint Hurdle is going to ever be capable of taking this team to the next level and winning a World Series. He is a great motivator and keeps the team level headed when times are tough, but as you pointed out Bobster his decision making for leaving pitchers in too long and his constant double switches just to name a few things have costs the Pirates a lot of games over the last few seasons. If you're Hurdle you have to manage that game last night with Locke better then you did. It was too important of a game to just leave Locke in there who clearly didn't have it after letting the Braves back in the game.
I'm thinking Locke and Vogelsong were thrust upon Clint as a deadline gift. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think this is on Clint.
No this is on Hurdle I've seen him do this many times over the past few years. He just doen't seem to understand every win is precious and could be the difference in going to the a five game playoff or a one game playoff. I've seen guys lots of managers bring in a righty to pitch to a righthanded hitter and switch to a lefthanded pitcher for a lefty in the 5th and 6th innings to perserve a lead. I can't remember ever seeing Hurdle do this especially in a regular season game. He just doesn't value games like I think he should and most other managers do. Now I've seen guys like McClendon over manage but we've got the other end of the spectrum here. Mac was the worst manager I ever saw.
I couldn't agree more. Mac was entirely clueless. But I also don't think much of Hurdle. He's only as good as his players. He's been fortunate these past 3 years because so many players performed well. But Hurdle doesn't do things to help. When he no longer had Cutch playing like a HOFer, Hurdle froze like a deer in the headlights and refused to do anything but bat him 3rd until sitting him 104 games into the season. Hurdle manages the pitching staff by rote. He has Locke and Vogelsong so he might as well start them. Even though common sense says otherwise. He doesn't like to remove a struggling starter before pitching 5 innings. Even if the game is lost by then. The players like him. But there's more to managing then being a good motivator and being liked. Once the game starts, the manager has to make decisions that can influence the outcome of the game. And that seems to be Hurdle's weakness.
And as I pointed out last night this is why I question if Clint Hurdle is going to ever be capable of taking this team to the next level and winning a World Series. He is a great motivator and keeps the team level headed when times are tough, but as you pointed out Bobster his decision making for leaving pitchers in too long and his constant double switches just to name a few things have costs the Pirates a lot of games over the last few seasons. If you're Hurdle you have to manage that game last night with Locke better then you did. It was too important of a game to just leave Locke in there who clearly didn't have it after letting the Braves back in the game.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Locke is so frustrating
I never believed in motivation until Hurdle came along. He is a real leader. Every player has said that.
I don't always agree with his moves on the field. He just wastes too many players for my liking. I also think he lets his players do too much. Meaning, bunting on their own, trying to steal at bad times, or swinging at a 3-0 pitch. I also heard that Hurdle is a big complainer to the umpires. That might hurt him too.
Overall, I like Hurdle. I think he can be better strategic manager. Huntington is a stat guy and Hurdle is a gut feeling guy. You really can't have both all the time.
Since this a Locke thread, I think he is done with the way Hurdle didn't defend him in the post game interview. He said it was a fair question to ask about his status/role but would not answer with all the microphones and cameras.
I don't always agree with his moves on the field. He just wastes too many players for my liking. I also think he lets his players do too much. Meaning, bunting on their own, trying to steal at bad times, or swinging at a 3-0 pitch. I also heard that Hurdle is a big complainer to the umpires. That might hurt him too.
Overall, I like Hurdle. I think he can be better strategic manager. Huntington is a stat guy and Hurdle is a gut feeling guy. You really can't have both all the time.
Since this a Locke thread, I think he is done with the way Hurdle didn't defend him in the post game interview. He said it was a fair question to ask about his status/role but would not answer with all the microphones and cameras.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Locke is so frustrating
272C24282D2C377274033A222B2C2C6D202C430 wrote: I never believed in motivation until Hurdle came along. He is a real leader. Every player has said that.
I don't always agree with his moves on the field. He just wastes too many players for my liking. I also think he lets his players do too much. Meaning, bunting on their own, trying to steal at bad times, or swinging at a 3-0 pitch. I also heard that Hurdle is a big complainer to the umpires. That might hurt him too.
Overall, I like Hurdle. I think he can be better strategic manager. Huntington is a stat guy and Hurdle is a gut feeling guy. You really can't have both all the time.
Since this a Locke thread, I think he is done with the way Hurdle didn't defend him in the post game interview. He said it was a fair question to ask about his status/role but would not answer with all the microphones and cameras.
I think it was clear this was his last chance. I would have had the last time be his last chance but here we are. He's a non-tender candidate next year anyhow so you're not losing anything with a DFA if you can't find a use for him in the bullpen.
I don't always agree with his moves on the field. He just wastes too many players for my liking. I also think he lets his players do too much. Meaning, bunting on their own, trying to steal at bad times, or swinging at a 3-0 pitch. I also heard that Hurdle is a big complainer to the umpires. That might hurt him too.
Overall, I like Hurdle. I think he can be better strategic manager. Huntington is a stat guy and Hurdle is a gut feeling guy. You really can't have both all the time.
Since this a Locke thread, I think he is done with the way Hurdle didn't defend him in the post game interview. He said it was a fair question to ask about his status/role but would not answer with all the microphones and cameras.
I think it was clear this was his last chance. I would have had the last time be his last chance but here we are. He's a non-tender candidate next year anyhow so you're not losing anything with a DFA if you can't find a use for him in the bullpen.
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SteadyFreddy
Locke is so frustrating
1F2D21213507242D20252A2D4C0 wrote: I never believed in motivation until Hurdle came along. He is a real leader. Every player has said that.
I don't always agree with his moves on the field. He just wastes too many players for my liking. I also think he lets his players do too much. Meaning, bunting on their own, trying to steal at bad times, or swinging at a 3-0 pitch. I also heard that Hurdle is a big complainer to the umpires. That might hurt him too.
Overall, I like Hurdle. I think he can be better strategic manager. Huntington is a stat guy and Hurdle is a gut feeling guy. You really can't have both all the time.
Since this a Locke thread, I think he is done with the way Hurdle didn't defend him in the post game interview. He said it was a fair question to ask about his status/role but would not answer with all the microphones and cameras.
I think it was clear this was his last chance. I would have had the last time be his last chance but here we are. He's a non-tender candidate next year anyhow so you're not losing anything with a DFA if you can't find a use for him in the bullpen.
We will see if this is the last we have seen of Locke. I personally don't believe it will be. If the Pirates were stupid enough to trot him out there yet again when there were much better options available then they will be stupid and stubborn enough to do it again. It doesn't take a genius to see that Locke stinks and he doesn't belong on this roster anymore. How Hurdle and Huntington still don't see that is absolutely mind-boggling. Yes he had some bad luck on the Freese play last night and Marte should have had the ball in center, but Locke was still pretty bad and should have not been in there that long.
I don't always agree with his moves on the field. He just wastes too many players for my liking. I also think he lets his players do too much. Meaning, bunting on their own, trying to steal at bad times, or swinging at a 3-0 pitch. I also heard that Hurdle is a big complainer to the umpires. That might hurt him too.
Overall, I like Hurdle. I think he can be better strategic manager. Huntington is a stat guy and Hurdle is a gut feeling guy. You really can't have both all the time.
Since this a Locke thread, I think he is done with the way Hurdle didn't defend him in the post game interview. He said it was a fair question to ask about his status/role but would not answer with all the microphones and cameras.
I think it was clear this was his last chance. I would have had the last time be his last chance but here we are. He's a non-tender candidate next year anyhow so you're not losing anything with a DFA if you can't find a use for him in the bullpen.
We will see if this is the last we have seen of Locke. I personally don't believe it will be. If the Pirates were stupid enough to trot him out there yet again when there were much better options available then they will be stupid and stubborn enough to do it again. It doesn't take a genius to see that Locke stinks and he doesn't belong on this roster anymore. How Hurdle and Huntington still don't see that is absolutely mind-boggling. Yes he had some bad luck on the Freese play last night and Marte should have had the ball in center, but Locke was still pretty bad and should have not been in there that long.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Locke is so frustrating
I'm sure they do understand man. They're there every day and they this way more important to them than it is to us if we're honest about it.
That said I don't know what else we need to see at this point. Even if they're in "save money at all costs" mode like people think they lose nothing by letting him go. He's not coming back next year.
That said I don't know what else we need to see at this point. Even if they're in "save money at all costs" mode like people think they lose nothing by letting him go. He's not coming back next year.
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SteadyFreddy
Locke is so frustrating
7B4945455163404944414E49280 wrote: I'm sure they do understand man. They're there every day and they this way more important to them than it is to us if we're honest about it.
That said I don't know what else we need to see at this point. Even if they're in "save money at all costs" mode like people think they lose nothing by letting him go. He's not coming back next year. Exactly so DFA him and call up Kuhl or call up Brault who should have been starting last night. He pitched well enough in Milwaukee to have earned another start. So there your problem is solved. This should have been done 2-3 weeks ago before the deadline.
That said I don't know what else we need to see at this point. Even if they're in "save money at all costs" mode like people think they lose nothing by letting him go. He's not coming back next year. Exactly so DFA him and call up Kuhl or call up Brault who should have been starting last night. He pitched well enough in Milwaukee to have earned another start. So there your problem is solved. This should have been done 2-3 weeks ago before the deadline.
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Bobster21
Locke is so frustrating
Seems like Locke always makes excuses. Here's his comments after the game per the Trib.
“It's frustrating, the inconsistent part of things,” Locke said. “We tried to keep some guys on five-day (routines) with all the rotation changes and everything. One guy (Steven Brault) isn't even here anymore, so what was it really all for?
“You never know when you're going to pitch, then you get the ball and get an opportunity tonight. I wanted to go out there and do well, but you never know what's going on sometimes. I threw more pitches warming up in the bullpen tonight that I did in games the past two weeks.”
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1081 ... tes-braves
I recall a year or two after yet another bad performance he reminded the reporter that he was an All-Star. IMHO, he's not only a AAAA pitcher but also a bit of a creep.
“It's frustrating, the inconsistent part of things,” Locke said. “We tried to keep some guys on five-day (routines) with all the rotation changes and everything. One guy (Steven Brault) isn't even here anymore, so what was it really all for?
“You never know when you're going to pitch, then you get the ball and get an opportunity tonight. I wanted to go out there and do well, but you never know what's going on sometimes. I threw more pitches warming up in the bullpen tonight that I did in games the past two weeks.”
http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1081 ... tes-braves
I recall a year or two after yet another bad performance he reminded the reporter that he was an All-Star. IMHO, he's not only a AAAA pitcher but also a bit of a creep.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Locke is so frustrating
I saw Locke's interview with Roots after the game. He pretty much took the blame. He said he threw the ball down the middle too much.
Locke is so frustrating
64435256534E71455253534E370 wrote: I'm sure they do understand man. They're there every day and they this way more important to them than it is to us if we're honest about it.
That said I don't know what else we need to see at this point. Even if they're in "save money at all costs" mode like people think they lose nothing by letting him go. He's not coming back next year. Exactly so DFA him and call up Kuhl or call up Brault who should have been starting last night. He pitched well enough in Milwaukee to have earned another start. So there your problem is solved. This should have been done 2-3 weeks ago before the deadline.
If I interpret the MLB transaction rules right, there's a catch: You can't DFA someone if the corresponding transaction is to recall someone on an optional assignment. So if they want to bring up Kuhl or Brault, they can't simply DFA Locke to clear a spot for him. To get one of those guys up, they'll either have to place someone on the DL or option someone back down.
Now what they CAN do is DFA Locke when they activate Vogelsong from the DL later today because Vogie isn't yet on the 25-man.
That said I don't know what else we need to see at this point. Even if they're in "save money at all costs" mode like people think they lose nothing by letting him go. He's not coming back next year. Exactly so DFA him and call up Kuhl or call up Brault who should have been starting last night. He pitched well enough in Milwaukee to have earned another start. So there your problem is solved. This should have been done 2-3 weeks ago before the deadline.
If I interpret the MLB transaction rules right, there's a catch: You can't DFA someone if the corresponding transaction is to recall someone on an optional assignment. So if they want to bring up Kuhl or Brault, they can't simply DFA Locke to clear a spot for him. To get one of those guys up, they'll either have to place someone on the DL or option someone back down.
Now what they CAN do is DFA Locke when they activate Vogelsong from the DL later today because Vogie isn't yet on the 25-man.