But everyone knew those guys would be traded. There market isn't very high when you are trading the whole team and many were aging vets. Only a few went on to have better careers outside of Pittsburgh.
Every GM knew the Pirates were trading Walker and Bay. Bautista was sent to the minors and no one predicted he would become the HR machine he turned into (bad attitude too). LaRoche was run out of town too.
Yes, you are missing a lot of other trades that were successful.
McCutchen is a different kind of player. If traded, he has to land big. Overall, Huntington has done well in trading. His talent evaluation has been pretty good. I doubt if traded they will get prospects. They will need to go after MLB ready players.
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
I think NH has been so-so in his trades. Not awful. Not great. One thing that hinders him is the team policy of trading for quantity over quality. Given the financial constraints of the team, they simply are not going to trade for a consistently productive player who brings a big contract. The Bay trade is a good example. He was one of the premier players in the NL and just 29 years old when dealt. No doubt, he could have landed an outstanding player in return. Instead, they opted for a bundle of prospects, which is always risky. So even if Cutch is still a Pirate and having an MVP type season at the trade deadline next year, chances are a trade would not bring the caliber of player(s) we think he is worth but rather a quantity of less expensive players with the hope they would develop into quality Pirates.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
1D303D2C2B3A2D6D6E5F0 wrote: I think NH has been so-so in his trades. Not awful. Not great. One thing that hinders him is the team policy of trading for quantity over quality. Given the financial constraints of the team, they simply are not going to trade for a consistently productive player who brings a big contract. The Bay trade is a good example. He was one of the premier players in the NL and just 29 years old when dealt. No doubt, he could have landed an outstanding player in return. Instead, they opted for a bundle of prospects, which is always risky. So even if Cutch is still a Pirate and having an MVP type season at the trade deadline next year, chances are a trade would not bring the caliber of player(s) we think he is worth but rather a quantity of less expensive players with the hope they would develop into quality Pirates.
Well, not saying you're wrong, but I'm not sure how much trading for one outstanding player for that team would have helped that much. I mean trading Giles for Bay was a good deal but where'd it really get us. If any of those pieces we got worked out . . .
anyhow, this is just all my way of hoping that the team's situation is different now and that could alter the goals of a trade.
Well, not saying you're wrong, but I'm not sure how much trading for one outstanding player for that team would have helped that much. I mean trading Giles for Bay was a good deal but where'd it really get us. If any of those pieces we got worked out . . .
anyhow, this is just all my way of hoping that the team's situation is different now and that could alter the goals of a trade.
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
69626A666362793C3A4D746C656262236E620D0 wrote: But everyone knew those guys would be traded. There market isn't very high when you are trading the whole team and many were aging vets. Only a few went on to have better careers outside of Pittsburgh.
Every GM knew the Pirates were trading Walker and Bay. Bautista was sent to the minors and no one predicted he would become the HR machine he turned into (bad attitude too). LaRoche was run out of town too.
Yes, you are missing a lot of other trades that were successful.
McCutchen is a different kind of player. If traded, he has to land big. Overall, Huntington has done well in trading. His talent evaluation has been pretty good. I doubt if traded they will get prospects. They will need to go after MLB ready players.
He has done well in minor deals. You can't give him credit for doing well in more major deals. If a team like Washington is trading for Cutch, I don't see them giving up a good major league player that impacts our roster. It will be prospects.
Every GM knew the Pirates were trading Walker and Bay. Bautista was sent to the minors and no one predicted he would become the HR machine he turned into (bad attitude too). LaRoche was run out of town too.
Yes, you are missing a lot of other trades that were successful.
McCutchen is a different kind of player. If traded, he has to land big. Overall, Huntington has done well in trading. His talent evaluation has been pretty good. I doubt if traded they will get prospects. They will need to go after MLB ready players.
He has done well in minor deals. You can't give him credit for doing well in more major deals. If a team like Washington is trading for Cutch, I don't see them giving up a good major league player that impacts our roster. It will be prospects.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
Who are the major deals? Bay?
Even with Bay, teams knew he was being moved to rebuild.
I also count the players he brought in for nothing too. Getting Byrd, Happ for nothing is a good example too.
Even with Bay, teams knew he was being moved to rebuild.
I also count the players he brought in for nothing too. Getting Byrd, Happ for nothing is a good example too.
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Bobster21
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
58535B575253480D0B7C455D545353125F533C0 wrote: Who are the major deals? Bay?
Even with Bay, teams knew he was being moved to rebuild.
I also count the players he brought in for nothing too. Getting Byrd, Happ for nothing is a good example too.
Even tho teams know you want to move a player, if he's as good as Bay was then, there should be multiple offers and you take the best deal. It's hard to imagine no one else offered anything or that no one offered more than what the Pirates got. Obviously, they wanted quantity. But none of the players worked out well for them.
Even with Bay, teams knew he was being moved to rebuild.
I also count the players he brought in for nothing too. Getting Byrd, Happ for nothing is a good example too.
Even tho teams know you want to move a player, if he's as good as Bay was then, there should be multiple offers and you take the best deal. It's hard to imagine no one else offered anything or that no one offered more than what the Pirates got. Obviously, they wanted quantity. But none of the players worked out well for them.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
79727A767372692C2A5D647C757272337E721D0 wrote: Who are the major deals? Bay?
Even with Bay, teams knew he was being moved to rebuild.
Now given peoples' opinions on Dejan, but this all sounds legitimate:
According to Kovacevic, before finally dealing Bay at the buzzer, Pittsburgh had been working on dealing Bay for over a year and a half.
Before the 2008 season, the Bucs had come close to dealing Bay and catcher Ronny Paulino to Cleveland for Cliff Lee, Franklin Guttierez, and Kelly Shoppach. The Pirates did not feel it was enough and killed it.
Just 20 minutes before the 4p.m. deadline, Kovacevic says the Braves and Rays were considered the primary trading partners, particularly the "prospect-rich Rays." But with only 15 minutes left, "the Pirates called each [team] to insist upon a specific prospect package and summarily were rejected," writes Kovacevic.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/04/t ... sited.html
Even with Bay, teams knew he was being moved to rebuild.
Now given peoples' opinions on Dejan, but this all sounds legitimate:
According to Kovacevic, before finally dealing Bay at the buzzer, Pittsburgh had been working on dealing Bay for over a year and a half.
Before the 2008 season, the Bucs had come close to dealing Bay and catcher Ronny Paulino to Cleveland for Cliff Lee, Franklin Guttierez, and Kelly Shoppach. The Pirates did not feel it was enough and killed it.
Just 20 minutes before the 4p.m. deadline, Kovacevic says the Braves and Rays were considered the primary trading partners, particularly the "prospect-rich Rays." But with only 15 minutes left, "the Pirates called each [team] to insist upon a specific prospect package and summarily were rejected," writes Kovacevic.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/04/t ... sited.html
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
042924353223347477460 wrote: I think NH has been so-so in his trades. Not awful. Not great. One thing that hinders him is the team policy of trading for quantity over quality. Given the financial constraints of the team, they simply are not going to trade for a consistently productive player who brings a big contract. The Bay trade is a good example. He was one of the premier players in the NL and just 29 years old when dealt. No doubt, he could have landed an outstanding player in return. Instead, they opted for a bundle of prospects, which is always risky. So even if Cutch is still a Pirate and having an MVP type season at the trade deadline next year, chances are a trade would not bring the caliber of player(s) we think he is worth but rather a quantity of less expensive players with the hope they would develop into quality Pirates.
I won't necessary dispute your conclusion as to the quality of the trades in general, but the Bay trade was a different beast. The team was a hot mess, and needed help everywhere that wasn't Bay. They aren't likely to ever do something like that again.
I won't necessary dispute your conclusion as to the quality of the trades in general, but the Bay trade was a different beast. The team was a hot mess, and needed help everywhere that wasn't Bay. They aren't likely to ever do something like that again.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
Yeah I guess that is what I was trying to say originally. Getting one good player wasn't going to do anything.
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Bobster21
Trade Cutch and Prospect to Tampa Bay for SP
063438382C1E3D34393C3334550 wrote: Yeah I guess that is what I was trying to say originally. Getting one good player wasn't going to do anything.
That's a valid point. Altho the 4 players they acquired didn't help them either. But I still believe we will not see the Pirates trade Cutch for anyone with a large salary. They've never traded for such players and I doubt this regime ever will. Even if they felt they were one very good starting pitcher away, I don't think they would make that type of trade if the pitcher had a high salary, even if such a pitcher was available for Cutch.
That's a valid point. Altho the 4 players they acquired didn't help them either. But I still believe we will not see the Pirates trade Cutch for anyone with a large salary. They've never traded for such players and I doubt this regime ever will. Even if they felt they were one very good starting pitcher away, I don't think they would make that type of trade if the pitcher had a high salary, even if such a pitcher was available for Cutch.