656E666A6F6E753036417860696E6E2F626E010 wrote: Everyone knew we needed a pitcher going into last offseason too. We had the SP depth of a kiddie pool.
Last year failed. Cole and Liriano also failed. That was the main issue, not Ryan Vogelsong. Just needed a bridge to get to Taillon. That bridge collapsed and so did everyone else. Every year they have brought in pitchers.
No way to know who (or how many), but it didn't take much too see that one injury or underperformance would make big rotation issues. You can't expect everything to go right. That's what people are talking about. Teams with a playoff ready rotation shouldn't start the season with a bullpen-guy-converted-to-starter experiment.
Like I said, it wasn't the biggest problem but it was a problem.
Is this season over yet???
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Is this season over yet???
When the top two starters have their worst seasons (as a Pirate), no team will survive that. None. We should talk about 2016 more.
How is that Mets rotation doing so far with Degrom and Harvey pitching worse and losing Matz and Syndergard? They should have built on their 2015 first place finish. Ugh.
How is that Mets rotation doing so far with Degrom and Harvey pitching worse and losing Matz and Syndergard? They should have built on their 2015 first place finish. Ugh.
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Bobster21
Is this season over yet???
39323A363332296C6A1D243C353232733E325D0 wrote: The payroll is low because the young guys are signed and not hitting their higher salaries.
But that's only part of it. Every year we see the exodus of players who, via free agency or arbitration, stand to get a significant pay increase. The Pirates subtract these players and keep a roster with mostly younger players who haven't yet hit their high salaries. When they do, they are gone and we get the quotes about financial flexibility. The same financial flexibility that always keeps the Pirates in the bottom 5 or 6 of MLB payrolls while avoiding paying players who would have increased that payroll.
But that's only part of it. Every year we see the exodus of players who, via free agency or arbitration, stand to get a significant pay increase. The Pirates subtract these players and keep a roster with mostly younger players who haven't yet hit their high salaries. When they do, they are gone and we get the quotes about financial flexibility. The same financial flexibility that always keeps the Pirates in the bottom 5 or 6 of MLB payrolls while avoiding paying players who would have increased that payroll.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Is this season over yet???
042924353223347477460 wrote: The payroll is low because the young guys are signed and not hitting their higher salaries.
But that's only part of it. Every year we see the exodus of players who, via free agency or arbitration, stand to get a significant pay increase. The Pirates subtract these players and keep a roster with mostly younger players who haven't yet hit their high salaries. When they do, they are gone and we get the quotes about financial flexibility. The same financial flexibility that always keeps the Pirates in the bottom 5 or 6 of MLB payrolls while avoiding paying players who would have increased that payroll.
As long as they win, the payroll shouldn't matter. They have added at trade deadlines three out of four years.
Do you want them not to try to trade McCutchen? His replacement could be ready next year.
But that's only part of it. Every year we see the exodus of players who, via free agency or arbitration, stand to get a significant pay increase. The Pirates subtract these players and keep a roster with mostly younger players who haven't yet hit their high salaries. When they do, they are gone and we get the quotes about financial flexibility. The same financial flexibility that always keeps the Pirates in the bottom 5 or 6 of MLB payrolls while avoiding paying players who would have increased that payroll.
As long as they win, the payroll shouldn't matter. They have added at trade deadlines three out of four years.
Do you want them not to try to trade McCutchen? His replacement could be ready next year.
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Bobster21
Is this season over yet???
78737B777273682D2B5C657D747373327F731C0 wrote:
As long as they win, the payroll shouldn't matter. They have added at trade deadlines three out of four years.
Do you want them not to try to trade McCutchen? His replacement could be ready next year.
But they're keeping the payroll low and NOT winning. Unless Cutch improves over last year and so far this year, he won't bring much in a trade. And it remains to be seen whether Meadows will be ready or how good he actually will be. Some teams would start him off as a 4th outfielder. But the Pirates will probably force feed him into the lineup so they can avoid paying Cutch next year. That's how they operate. Subtract one of their larger contracts and replace it with a minimum salary. Financial flexibility...to do what exactly?
As long as they win, the payroll shouldn't matter. They have added at trade deadlines three out of four years.
Do you want them not to try to trade McCutchen? His replacement could be ready next year.
But they're keeping the payroll low and NOT winning. Unless Cutch improves over last year and so far this year, he won't bring much in a trade. And it remains to be seen whether Meadows will be ready or how good he actually will be. Some teams would start him off as a 4th outfielder. But the Pirates will probably force feed him into the lineup so they can avoid paying Cutch next year. That's how they operate. Subtract one of their larger contracts and replace it with a minimum salary. Financial flexibility...to do what exactly?
Is this season over yet???
745954454253440407360 wrote: Financial flexibility...to do what exactly?
To pay Daniel Hudson, John Jaso and Josh Harrison.
To pay Daniel Hudson, John Jaso and Josh Harrison.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Is this season over yet???
6A474A5B5C4D5A1A19280 wrote:
As long as they win, the payroll shouldn't matter. They have added at trade deadlines three out of four years.
Do you want them not to try to trade McCutchen? His replacement could be ready next year.
But they're keeping the payroll low and NOT winning. Unless Cutch improves over last year and so far this year, he won't bring much in a trade. And it remains to be seen whether Meadows will be ready or how good he actually will be. Some teams would start him off as a 4th outfielder. But the Pirates will probably force feed him into the lineup so they can avoid paying Cutch next year. That's how they operate. Subtract one of their larger contracts and replace it with a minimum salary. Financial flexibility...to do what exactly?
Why isn't that a smart business move: To move a non-producing asset for a younger, cheaper model who can be better? Even if McCutchen doesn't bring back a good return (or a higher expected return), isn't it good to get him off the books?
I know, they aren't winning. That damn 2016 is mentioned over and over and never the three years prior. I don't get why the three previous years aren't the model for the future compared to that one losing season. Sad, negative world we live in. One negative washes out all the positives.
As long as they win, the payroll shouldn't matter. They have added at trade deadlines three out of four years.
Do you want them not to try to trade McCutchen? His replacement could be ready next year.
But they're keeping the payroll low and NOT winning. Unless Cutch improves over last year and so far this year, he won't bring much in a trade. And it remains to be seen whether Meadows will be ready or how good he actually will be. Some teams would start him off as a 4th outfielder. But the Pirates will probably force feed him into the lineup so they can avoid paying Cutch next year. That's how they operate. Subtract one of their larger contracts and replace it with a minimum salary. Financial flexibility...to do what exactly?
Why isn't that a smart business move: To move a non-producing asset for a younger, cheaper model who can be better? Even if McCutchen doesn't bring back a good return (or a higher expected return), isn't it good to get him off the books?
I know, they aren't winning. That damn 2016 is mentioned over and over and never the three years prior. I don't get why the three previous years aren't the model for the future compared to that one losing season. Sad, negative world we live in. One negative washes out all the positives.
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OrlandoMerced
Is this season over yet???
While I fully understand and endorse the concept that the Pirates need to spend more on payroll, I don't understand what people want them to be spending on. I'm sure that NH will tell you that it was a mistake to sit out the 2015 offseason, that FA class was strong and the team was coming off a 98 win season. They are going to acquire guys when they identify a need, like with Nova this past offseason. The error was that they didn't identify the rotation as a need that needed to be addressed on the FA market. Assuming that they are able to move McCutchen at the deadline, a big bat will be an area of need heading in to 2018. I know people laugh off the idea that they will attempt to fill that hole, but I think they are in position to commit money and will do it when the FA market aligns with their needs.
Is this season over yet???
5B6678757A707B597166777170140 wrote: While I fully understand and endorse the concept that the Pirates need to spend more on payroll, I don't understand what people want them to be spending on.
78 wins last season? Nah, there's no way the team could be improved.
78 wins last season? Nah, there's no way the team could be improved.