July 31 trade deadline

Jerseykc · Post by **Jerseykc** » Fri May 12, 2017 10:39 pm

182A26263200232A27222D2A4B0 wrote: A fan Q&A answered by who I'm assuming is a beat writer:

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/201 ... quint.html

Cole or Quintana, continued ...

The pick here would be Cole, who’s the better pitcher and is 26 years old, two years younger than Quintana. Cole is signed through 2020 while Quintana has a contract that runs through 2021. But Cole will enter his first year of salary arbitration next season and projects to be less expensive than Quintana, who’s owed almost $38 million, which is plenty reasonable for a pitcher of his caliber.

Both teams will want a boatload of young talent for either player. But only Cole would be worth it. Quintana has shown the ability of a No. 2 starter for most of his career, averaging 30 starts and a 3.41 ERA through his five seasons in the majors prior to 2017. Meanwhile, Cole has at least one ace-like season under his belt (2015: 19-8, 2.60 ERA) and has been just as good as Quintana — at least when he's on the mound. Cole has only made 30 starts once in a season.

. . . Figure any conversation for Cole could start with Pittsburgh asking for Gleyber Torres, the Yankees’ No. 1 overall prospect. Would the Yankees go there? It’s probably what they would have had to give up to get Chris Sale, whom Boston got for No. 1 overall prospect Yoan Moncada. Tough.

I've seen Gleyber Torres 2 games (different weekends) this season. If you like the way the Buccos run into outs on the bases, you'll love him. Gene Michael was sitting in front of us both games and was shaking his head. A's scout was asking him about it and Michael said the kid has a long way to go.

Nice swing though...

Quail · Post by **Quail** » Fri May 12, 2017 10:45 pm

784A46465260434A47424D4A2B0 wrote: Sitting on Cole to gain 1 season (2018) will be the dumbest thing this organization can do.

That depends.

How much were you willing to give up to gain 1/2 season of David Price?

Quite a bit. But that was a totally different team then what we're looking at currently.

I don't think we can measure how much Cutch decline has impacted this team. We've replaced an MVP caliber player with a below average player. That's a huge loss.

Yeah, I can see that, and I'm halfway on board with you. I can also see a scenario where we turn things around, are like 3 games back next July, and we're all bemoaning that the cheap nuttings dumped our best pitcher.

I would like to hear about that scenario. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with some sort of scenario just as you describe and haven't been able to.

I really like the starting pitching staff and its chances of getting even better over the course of the next year. The bullpen is okay. The rest of this team is a shambles. I can't see how anything other than a complete rebuild will be able to improve defense, speed and baseball IQ even if Kang and Marte return at something resembling their top form. Our top trade chip is Cole and if you deal him you lose a quality starter from the very thing you want to rebuild around.

So please tell me how your scenario works. Serious question.

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Sat May 13, 2017 12:04 am

The rotation will soon fall back to middle of NL. So I wouldn't worry much about it. Great start for Cole Taillon Nova. Poor start for #4 and #5.

With Taillon now out, it won't be too long. I don't believe we have much quality to sure it up. We have arms, but so does everyone. Our depth isn't there to hold on

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Sat May 13, 2017 12:13 am

7A5E4A42472B0 wrote: Sitting on Cole to gain 1 season (2018) will be the dumbest thing this organization can do.

That depends.

How much were you willing to give up to gain 1/2 season of David Price?

Quite a bit. But that was a totally different team then what we're looking at currently.

I don't think we can measure how much Cutch decline has impacted this team. We've replaced an MVP caliber player with a below average player. That's a huge loss.

Yeah, I can see that, and I'm halfway on board with you. I can also see a scenario where we turn things around, are like 3 games back next July, and we're all bemoaning that the cheap nuttings dumped our best pitcher.

I would like to hear about that scenario. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with some sort of scenario just as you describe and haven't been able to.

I really like the starting pitching staff and its chances of getting even better over the course of the next year. The bullpen is okay. The rest of this team is a shambles. I can't see how anything other than a complete rebuild will be able to improve defense, speed and baseball IQ even if Kang and Marte return at something resembling their top form. Our top trade chip is Cole and if you deal him you lose a quality starter from the very thing you want to rebuild around.

So please tell me how your scenario works. Serious question.

Well I mean, (and this first one might be a stretch) Kang and Marte come back next season and behave, and play about how they were. Polanco looks more like the Polanco we were seeing last year at times. Austin Meadows, after getting his feet wet this season, puts forth a pretty representative effort, good without needing to be a superstar. BELL. I think Bell can take a stride.

Yeah, that's a lot of things to fall right. But I don't think any of it's crazy, and it also took a lot to fall WRONG to get what we have now.

I've been with everyone else saying that the team should have done things to mitigate the issues, and it's possible the damage is irreparable. But to look at the other side, and I know we don't want to hear it, but I don't know of a team that could deal very will with their best two players being whisked away to purgatory and possibly their next two being so bad.

RichD · Post by **RichD** » Sat May 13, 2017 12:44 am

All about trading Cole asap. Yanks have some nice players.

We have to rebuild .

We are going to have to package a prospect with Cutch to move him.

How times have changed. Neil should of taken what the Nats offered. :'(

Oh well you live and learn.

Been a bucs fan for so many losing seasons .I feel at home with what i see of this years team ::)

Quail · Post by **Quail** » Sat May 13, 2017 1:56 am

1E2C20203406252C21242B2C4D0 wrote: Sitting on Cole to gain 1 season (2018) will be the dumbest thing this organization can do.

That depends.

How much were you willing to give up to gain 1/2 season of David Price?

Quite a bit. But that was a totally different team then what we're looking at currently.

I don't think we can measure how much Cutch decline has impacted this team. We've replaced an MVP caliber player with a below average player. That's a huge loss.

Yeah, I can see that, and I'm halfway on board with you. I can also see a scenario where we turn things around, are like 3 games back next July, and we're all bemoaning that the cheap nuttings dumped our best pitcher.

I would like to hear about that scenario. I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with some sort of scenario just as you describe and haven't been able to.

I really like the starting pitching staff and its chances of getting even better over the course of the next year. The bullpen is okay. The rest of this team is a shambles. I can't see how anything other than a complete rebuild will be able to improve defense, speed and baseball IQ even if Kang and Marte return at something resembling their top form. Our top trade chip is Cole and if you deal him you lose a quality starter from the very thing you want to rebuild around.

So please tell me how your scenario works. Serious question.

Well I mean, (and this first one might be a stretch) Kang and Marte come back next season and behave, and play about how they were. Polanco looks more like the Polanco we were seeing last year at times. Austin Meadows, after getting his feet wet this season, puts forth a pretty representative effort, good without needing to be a superstar. BELL. I think Bell can take a stride.

Yeah, that's a lot of things to fall right. But I don't think any of it's crazy, and it also took a lot to fall WRONG to get what we have now.

I've been with everyone else saying that the team should have done things to mitigate the issues, and it's possible the damage is irreparable. But to look at the other side, and I know we don't want to hear it, but I don't know of a team that could deal very will with their best two players being whisked away to purgatory and possibly their next two being so bad.

I agree with everything you've said. Your scenario could happen but I think it's not very likely.

What cramps my mind most about a potential turn around is that as a baseball traditionalist I feel if you build around starting pitching you must have good to great defense when your offense is average or less. With that in mind I see Polanco and Bell as being miscast on this team unless they can provide real middle of the lineup power. Otherwise their poor defense makes them nothing more than liabilities. There's no reversal of fortune for the Pirates if those two guys don't improve- a lot.

Cervelli, Mercer and Harrison all provide average or better defense but you can't build an offense around them. Cutch is a poor defender, only average offensively and likely to be gone by the trading deadline. I hope Meadows is as good a player as we've all been led to believe because we'll need plus offense and defense from him. Freese and Frazier give a modicum of bench strength (although Frazier's defense isn't good) when Kang and Marte return.

As you accurately point out a lot of things will have to fall right, but an unusual number of things have gone very wrong so maybe we're due for things to even out. I sure hope so.

RichD · Post by **RichD** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:13 am

Pirates need to go to Mexico and give Matt Clark a look see.

Lefty 1b/OF type only 30 yo.

This guy must have done something bad to be in Mexico at this point. Look at his career # . Really solid.

Why did he never get a chance? Except for a few at bats with the brewers

RichD · Post by **RichD** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:27 am

I want to tear it all down.

I have seen enough of

Josh Harrison-solid bench guy but getting starter money ...High value now maybe .

Cutch - Think he may have stopped his Marte supplement cycle last year .

Marte- I wanted to trade a season ago, the board was calling me crazy.

Kang -( He`s done ) Bet he has a beer in his hand right now..Alcoholism is a bitch.

Alan Hanson - over hyped and living on a season from 4 years ago.

Jaso - i was down for him when signed.I was wrong .

Polanco - wait and see.

We are in rebuild mode ....Clean out the garage.

Speedloader88 · Post by **Speedloader88** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:37 am

Meadows should have a prospect "ALERT" attached to him. How many highly prized Pirates prospects have turned out to be sub par major leaguers? I think this kid and his AAA mediocrity sends up multi colored trip flairs as signals he was over rated. I don't trust the Pirate hype machine as it benefits them to over hype their prospects and keeps eyes off the major league club and always on the future. Thanks #NuttingsWallet

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Sat May 13, 2017 2:40 am

4A717B705C180 wrote: I want to tear it all down.

I have seen enough of

Josh Harrison-solid bench guy but getting starter money ...High value now maybe .

Cutch - Think he may have stopped his Marte supplement cycle last year .

Marte- I wanted to trade a season ago, the board was calling me crazy.

Kang -( He`s done ) Bet he has a beer in his hand right now..Alcoholism is a bitch.

Alan Hanson - over hyped and living on a season from 4 years ago.

Jaso - i was down for him when signed.I was wrong .

Polanco - wait and see.

We are in rebuild mode ....Clean out the garage.

Only four of those guys would be considered going forward. Jaso, Hanson, and McCutchen wouldn't be around. Jaso and Hanson don't even matter. They are playing due to injuries. McCutchen is a sad case, but his replacement is being groomed.