252E262A2F2E357076013820292E2E6F222E410 wrote: Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
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4B40484441405B1E186F564E474040014C402F0 wrote: Question:
If Cole is so bad, why would a contending team want him?
It's obvious. He has massive potential. Question is will he reach it?
If Cole is so bad, why would a contending team want him?
It's obvious. He has massive potential. Question is will he reach it?
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rucker59@gmail.com
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Someone can try to defend the trade all they want to, but our farm system took a big hit in dumping Lariano's salary. I think folks forget that McGuire was the overall #14 pick! He's just gone.
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
FIRE SALE!!
49485342541413270 wrote: Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
Doesn't matter about JHay, we were told over and over what a bad contract he represented and how bad he is on the bases.
This team with out Josh equals a team with NO LEADERSHIP.
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
Doesn't matter about JHay, we were told over and over what a bad contract he represented and how bad he is on the bases.
This team with out Josh equals a team with NO LEADERSHIP.
FIRE SALE!!
4245535B5542050970575D51595C1E535F5D300 wrote:
Fair question. It is easy to bounce around as a fan. We get jerked up And down by the change in the tide. But I think what you've seen from me is disbelief that we're somehow (or were before the weekend) in a real race. Given the opportunity to win a division and I'm all in. But the reality is that this team has no chance because the FO will do NOTHING to actually give the team its best chance.
All along, for a number of years, i've felt like there is a good core to build around. If they had the desire, this team could be a divisional champion. But the FO has no desire. So, the worse thing that can happen, imho, is to just sit still. Add or sale. But don't sit. I can go either way, but I hate the way the team is actually being run.
I can't disagree with what you're saying.
I guess the only thing I'd add, and it isn't really adding so much as it is clarifying, is this:
It's not that Nutting has no desire. Hr clearly has desire. he just desires completely different things than we do.
He desires profit and he desires the big revenue checks that come from MLB. In his eyes, he's already accomplished his goal. He created the illusion that they're trying to win and there's only one person that needs to believe it's not an illusion:
Rob Manfred
Manfred has seen that Nutting is giving out contract extensions to Cutch, Marte, Polanco, JHay etc. It doesn't matter if those contracts work out or if each and every one of them is blatant incompetence. It shows that they're trying to develop their own players and lock them up with contracts...the exact opposite of what Oakland has done and they lost their revenue sharing.
Unfortunately, there is no rule against incompetence or bad decisions. All they have to do is make it appear like they're trying to win.
The majority of Pirates, "fans," have completely lost sight of what the point of MLB is. They now debate whether or not Neal was able to extract more value out of a contract than was expected and if he can, THAT'S seen as a big win.
That's a result of the Nutting propaganda machine working. Slowly, over they years, they dumbed down the masses into thinking the system isn't fair to the Pirates. There's all this, "what were the Pirates supposed to do?!?!?" There's plenty of it right here on OBN and it's infected the entire Pittsburgh area.
Nutting is a scam artist, plain and simple. He's never cared for a single second about winning. Anyone who thinks there is anything going on in the Pirates front office other than an effort to extend mediocrity/profitablity, is living in their own alternate reality.
Fair question. It is easy to bounce around as a fan. We get jerked up And down by the change in the tide. But I think what you've seen from me is disbelief that we're somehow (or were before the weekend) in a real race. Given the opportunity to win a division and I'm all in. But the reality is that this team has no chance because the FO will do NOTHING to actually give the team its best chance.
All along, for a number of years, i've felt like there is a good core to build around. If they had the desire, this team could be a divisional champion. But the FO has no desire. So, the worse thing that can happen, imho, is to just sit still. Add or sale. But don't sit. I can go either way, but I hate the way the team is actually being run.
I can't disagree with what you're saying.
I guess the only thing I'd add, and it isn't really adding so much as it is clarifying, is this:
It's not that Nutting has no desire. Hr clearly has desire. he just desires completely different things than we do.
He desires profit and he desires the big revenue checks that come from MLB. In his eyes, he's already accomplished his goal. He created the illusion that they're trying to win and there's only one person that needs to believe it's not an illusion:
Rob Manfred
Manfred has seen that Nutting is giving out contract extensions to Cutch, Marte, Polanco, JHay etc. It doesn't matter if those contracts work out or if each and every one of them is blatant incompetence. It shows that they're trying to develop their own players and lock them up with contracts...the exact opposite of what Oakland has done and they lost their revenue sharing.
Unfortunately, there is no rule against incompetence or bad decisions. All they have to do is make it appear like they're trying to win.
The majority of Pirates, "fans," have completely lost sight of what the point of MLB is. They now debate whether or not Neal was able to extract more value out of a contract than was expected and if he can, THAT'S seen as a big win.
That's a result of the Nutting propaganda machine working. Slowly, over they years, they dumbed down the masses into thinking the system isn't fair to the Pirates. There's all this, "what were the Pirates supposed to do?!?!?" There's plenty of it right here on OBN and it's infected the entire Pittsburgh area.
Nutting is a scam artist, plain and simple. He's never cared for a single second about winning. Anyone who thinks there is anything going on in the Pirates front office other than an effort to extend mediocrity/profitablity, is living in their own alternate reality.
FIRE SALE!!
6343504D4C220 wrote:
Fair question. It is easy to bounce around as a fan. We get jerked up And down by the change in the tide. But I think what you've seen from me is disbelief that we're somehow (or were before the weekend) in a real race. Given the opportunity to win a division and I'm all in. But the reality is that this team has no chance because the FO will do NOTHING to actually give the team its best chance.
All along, for a number of years, i've felt like there is a good core to build around. If they had the desire, this team could be a divisional champion. But the FO has no desire. So, the worse thing that can happen, imho, is to just sit still. Add or sale. But don't sit. I can go either way, but I hate the way the team is actually being run.
I can't disagree with what you're saying.
I guess the only thing I'd add, and it isn't really adding so much as it is clarifying, is this:
It's not that Nutting has no desire. He clearly has desire. He just desires completely different things than we do.
He desires profit and he desires the big revenue checks that come from MLB. In his eyes, he's already accomplished his goal. He created the illusion that they're trying to win and there's only one person that needs to believe it's not an illusion:
Rob Manfred
Manfred has seen that Nutting is giving out contract extensions to Cutch, Marte, Polanco, JHay etc. It doesn't matter if those contracts work out or if each and every one of them is blatant incompetence. It shows that they're trying to develop their own players and lock them up with contracts...the exact opposite of what Oakland has done and they lost their revenue sharing.
Unfortunately, there is no rule against incompetence or bad decisions. All they have to do is make it appear like they're trying to win.
The majority of Pirates, "fans," have completely lost sight of what the point of MLB is. They now debate whether or not Neal was able to extract more value out of a contract than was expected and if he can, THAT'S seen as a big win. Not actual wins on the field.
That's a result of the Nutting propaganda machine working. Slowly, over they years, they dumbed down the masses into thinking the system isn't fair to the Pirates. There's all this, "what were the Pirates supposed to do?!?!?" There's plenty of it right here on OBN and it's infected the entire Pittsburgh area.
Nutting is a scam artist, plain and simple. He's never cared for a single second about winning. Anyone who thinks there is anything going on in the Pirates front office other than an effort to extend mediocrity/profitablity, is living in their own alternate reality.
Fair question. It is easy to bounce around as a fan. We get jerked up And down by the change in the tide. But I think what you've seen from me is disbelief that we're somehow (or were before the weekend) in a real race. Given the opportunity to win a division and I'm all in. But the reality is that this team has no chance because the FO will do NOTHING to actually give the team its best chance.
All along, for a number of years, i've felt like there is a good core to build around. If they had the desire, this team could be a divisional champion. But the FO has no desire. So, the worse thing that can happen, imho, is to just sit still. Add or sale. But don't sit. I can go either way, but I hate the way the team is actually being run.
I can't disagree with what you're saying.
I guess the only thing I'd add, and it isn't really adding so much as it is clarifying, is this:
It's not that Nutting has no desire. He clearly has desire. He just desires completely different things than we do.
He desires profit and he desires the big revenue checks that come from MLB. In his eyes, he's already accomplished his goal. He created the illusion that they're trying to win and there's only one person that needs to believe it's not an illusion:
Rob Manfred
Manfred has seen that Nutting is giving out contract extensions to Cutch, Marte, Polanco, JHay etc. It doesn't matter if those contracts work out or if each and every one of them is blatant incompetence. It shows that they're trying to develop their own players and lock them up with contracts...the exact opposite of what Oakland has done and they lost their revenue sharing.
Unfortunately, there is no rule against incompetence or bad decisions. All they have to do is make it appear like they're trying to win.
The majority of Pirates, "fans," have completely lost sight of what the point of MLB is. They now debate whether or not Neal was able to extract more value out of a contract than was expected and if he can, THAT'S seen as a big win. Not actual wins on the field.
That's a result of the Nutting propaganda machine working. Slowly, over they years, they dumbed down the masses into thinking the system isn't fair to the Pirates. There's all this, "what were the Pirates supposed to do?!?!?" There's plenty of it right here on OBN and it's infected the entire Pittsburgh area.
Nutting is a scam artist, plain and simple. He's never cared for a single second about winning. Anyone who thinks there is anything going on in the Pirates front office other than an effort to extend mediocrity/profitablity, is living in their own alternate reality.
FIRE SALE!!
Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.[/quot
Weren't you one of the regulars that wanted rid of Harrison anyway? I'm pretty sure last season you said his contract was bad for the Pirates. Now you include him in your core going forward?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.[/quot
Weren't you one of the regulars that wanted rid of Harrison anyway? I'm pretty sure last season you said his contract was bad for the Pirates. Now you include him in your core going forward?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
FIRE SALE!!
49485342541413270 wrote: Harrison, Mercer, maybe a healthy Cervelli? Kang? Why didn't you include them in the core?
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
Polanco looks hurt to me. I expected him to break out this year. He is clearly not doing that. I would not give up on him or call him a bust. His 2016 season was very solid. If he duplicates that season, he will start on many teams as a piece to the puzzle.
Polanco is a fine addition. He might not be a super star like some hoped, but he is a fine second tier player. He is still improving. He is only in his third year and can be here for another six years. He can duplicate 2016 with even more power and a higher average.
Harrison will probably be gone, maybe as soon as this deadline. Mercer might be here. While I like Cervelli, I'm not sure Diaz isn't better already and if he continues to have concussions he looses all his value as a regular position player. It's pretty obvious why Kang isn't included. No Polanco is not good and no he is not improving, if anything he has taken a huge step backwards. I'm not sure what player you are watching. Last season he worked on making his swing shorter and more compact. It worked for a while and then he reverted right back to that long slow swing that he still has today. That swing is not going to be continuously successful. He may get some hot streaks from time to time but it's never going to be consistent. Polanco would be one of the players I would shop hoping that someone pays for potential. I've watched his swing in slow motion and compared it to other good hitters, trust me his swing is not good.
Polanco looks hurt to me. I expected him to break out this year. He is clearly not doing that. I would not give up on him or call him a bust. His 2016 season was very solid. If he duplicates that season, he will start on many teams as a piece to the puzzle.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
FIRE SALE!!
48687B6667090 wrote:
Fair question. It is easy to bounce around as a fan. We get jerked up And down by the change in the tide. But I think what you've seen from me is disbelief that we're somehow (or were before the weekend) in a real race. Given the opportunity to win a division and I'm all in. But the reality is that this team has no chance because the FO will do NOTHING to actually give the team its best chance.
All along, for a number of years, i've felt like there is a good core to build around. If they had the desire, this team could be a divisional champion. But the FO has no desire. So, the worse thing that can happen, imho, is to just sit still. Add or sale. But don't sit. I can go either way, but I hate the way the team is actually being run.
I can't disagree with what you're saying.
I guess the only thing I'd add, and it isn't really adding so much as it is clarifying, is this:
It's not that Nutting has no desire. Hr clearly has desire. he just desires completely different things than we do.
He desires profit and he desires the big revenue checks that come from MLB. In his eyes, he's already accomplished his goal. He created the illusion that they're trying to win and there's only one person that needs to believe it's not an illusion:
Rob Manfred
Manfred has seen that Nutting is giving out contract extensions to Cutch, Marte, Polanco, JHay etc. It doesn't matter if those contracts work out or if each and every one of them is blatant incompetence. It shows that they're trying to develop their own players and lock them up with contracts...the exact opposite of what Oakland has done and they lost their revenue sharing.
Unfortunately, there is no rule against incompetence or bad decisions. All they have to do is make it appear like they're trying to win.
The majority of Pirates, "fans," have completely lost sight of what the point of MLB is. They now debate whether or not Neal was able to extract more value out of a contract than was expected and if he can, THAT'S seen as a big win.
That's a result of the Nutting propaganda machine working. Slowly, over they years, they dumbed down the masses into thinking the system isn't fair to the Pirates. There's all this, "what were the Pirates supposed to do?!?!?" There's plenty of it right here on OBN and it's infected the entire Pittsburgh area.
Nutting is a scam artist, plain and simple. He's never cared for a single second about winning. Anyone who thinks there is anything going on in the Pirates front office other than an effort to extend mediocrity/profitablity, is living in their own alternate reality.
I would say you and I are in pretty much agreement. There was a time I defended Nutting, gave him the benefit of the doubt with respect to his promises and was encouraged by the $$ going into the draft and and the Latin development.
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer? (sarcasm for those needing help). The drafts are proving to be poor and MLB even did Nutting a favor by capping draft expenditures.
MLB is a disappointment - I would fully support MLB looking into the operation of the Pirates. They seem to be willing to allow Nutting to have an appearance of competitiveness. But it's an appearance only,m and I'd say that is pretty thin.
Fair question. It is easy to bounce around as a fan. We get jerked up And down by the change in the tide. But I think what you've seen from me is disbelief that we're somehow (or were before the weekend) in a real race. Given the opportunity to win a division and I'm all in. But the reality is that this team has no chance because the FO will do NOTHING to actually give the team its best chance.
All along, for a number of years, i've felt like there is a good core to build around. If they had the desire, this team could be a divisional champion. But the FO has no desire. So, the worse thing that can happen, imho, is to just sit still. Add or sale. But don't sit. I can go either way, but I hate the way the team is actually being run.
I can't disagree with what you're saying.
I guess the only thing I'd add, and it isn't really adding so much as it is clarifying, is this:
It's not that Nutting has no desire. Hr clearly has desire. he just desires completely different things than we do.
He desires profit and he desires the big revenue checks that come from MLB. In his eyes, he's already accomplished his goal. He created the illusion that they're trying to win and there's only one person that needs to believe it's not an illusion:
Rob Manfred
Manfred has seen that Nutting is giving out contract extensions to Cutch, Marte, Polanco, JHay etc. It doesn't matter if those contracts work out or if each and every one of them is blatant incompetence. It shows that they're trying to develop their own players and lock them up with contracts...the exact opposite of what Oakland has done and they lost their revenue sharing.
Unfortunately, there is no rule against incompetence or bad decisions. All they have to do is make it appear like they're trying to win.
The majority of Pirates, "fans," have completely lost sight of what the point of MLB is. They now debate whether or not Neal was able to extract more value out of a contract than was expected and if he can, THAT'S seen as a big win.
That's a result of the Nutting propaganda machine working. Slowly, over they years, they dumbed down the masses into thinking the system isn't fair to the Pirates. There's all this, "what were the Pirates supposed to do?!?!?" There's plenty of it right here on OBN and it's infected the entire Pittsburgh area.
Nutting is a scam artist, plain and simple. He's never cared for a single second about winning. Anyone who thinks there is anything going on in the Pirates front office other than an effort to extend mediocrity/profitablity, is living in their own alternate reality.
I would say you and I are in pretty much agreement. There was a time I defended Nutting, gave him the benefit of the doubt with respect to his promises and was encouraged by the $$ going into the draft and and the Latin development.
But, as you say, what a scam. Do the Pirates even scout Latin America any longer? (sarcasm for those needing help). The drafts are proving to be poor and MLB even did Nutting a favor by capping draft expenditures.
MLB is a disappointment - I would fully support MLB looking into the operation of the Pirates. They seem to be willing to allow Nutting to have an appearance of competitiveness. But it's an appearance only,m and I'd say that is pretty thin.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
FIRE SALE!!
1215030B0512555920070D01090C4E030F0D600 wrote: Someone can try to defend the trade all they want to, but our farm system took a big hit in dumping Lariano's salary. I think folks forget that McGuire was the overall #14 pick! He's just gone.
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
If the player stinks and doesn't improve, how are they still considered a loss or even a top prospect?
It could just be a bad draft. It will be, especially, if Meadows doesn't make an impact. McGuire was a miss in drafting. He is not good, is regressing as a player. Not sure how trading him hurt the farm?
Maybe he's no longer much of a prospect a star some want to argue. If that's the case, then Neal simply had another very poor draft in 2013. If Meadows doesn't develop it will be a complete failure.
This was suppose to be a huge draft two picks within the top #14. Frazier and Kuhl are the only bright spots. For an organization dependent on the draft, this is a failure.
If the player stinks and doesn't improve, how are they still considered a loss or even a top prospect?
It could just be a bad draft. It will be, especially, if Meadows doesn't make an impact. McGuire was a miss in drafting. He is not good, is regressing as a player. Not sure how trading him hurt the farm?