OnlyBucs

agreed SC.

7E4C40405466454C41444B4C2D0 wrote: I think there's something else to this.  If all of everyone's deepest fantasies are true and it is all about money, there are lots of people other than Juan Nicasio that could have been waived. 


No, that's not accurate. Any player that ends up getting released, still has to be paid by The Pirates, unless another team picks them up.



Nicasio is having a nice season and should immediately be grabbed. Then Nutting don't have to pay his remaining salary. If they were to do the same with say Jaso or Hudson and no team picks them up, Nutting still has to pay them.


So there are no other players on the team that could be put on waivers and get picked up?




They'd have to be players that the Pirates are OK with getting nothing in return for.



So, for example, they could do the same with Marte. But they still see Marte as a part of the future team and don't want to just give him away. Nicasio isn't part of the future for this team.

6A7753515F3A0 wrote:



Kontos may be a bit older, but he is under contract for next year.  Nicasio isn't.



I don't get the angst about this at all.  This team isn't making the playoffs.  When the roster expands, (I hope) a bunch of innings are going to go to younger pitchers who are currently in AAA.  There is no need for Nicasio around






I think Kontos is arb eligible for next year, but not under contract?



I don't think the people who oppose the move (including me) would be so concerned if we thought a bunch innings would go to Neverauskas, Sanchez, and Santana.

0A3834342012313835303F38590 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


It is the exact same situation.  How the Giants allegedly felt about Kontos isn't any more relevant to his market than how the Pirates feel about Nicasio. The other 29 teams set the market. In both instances, there was none. The notion than other teams would value Kontos less is highly doubtful.


But if he (Nicasio) were put on revocable waivers and pulled earlier in the month, there's no reason why the Pirates shouldn't have taken a deal from the claiming team however crummy if they were dead-set on just releasing him anyway.




There were no takers when Nicasio went on revocable waivers.



This is also about getting guys who might be in next year's bullpen innings. We how have:



Sanchez

Neverauskas

Schugel

Brault



In our bullpen. And Santana will surely be a call-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hutchinson or Holmes added to the bullpen mix with Kingham and Glasnow both slipped into a 6-man rotation. Decisions need to be made about lots of pitchers -- although Indianapolis will make the playoffs and that might slow some of the call-ups.



We just threw in the towel. Maybe this is about $600,000 in savings, but with so many arms that need MLB innings, it's also about 2018's bullpen. There were no innings left for Nicasio and especially LeBlanc.

6342575E665F44574253360 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


It is the exact same situation.  How the Giants allegedly felt about Kontos isn't any more relevant to his market than how the Pirates feel about Nicasio. The other 29 teams set the market. In both instances, there was none. The notion than other teams would value Kontos less is highly doubtful.


But if he (Nicasio) were put on revocable waivers and pulled earlier in the month, there's no reason why the Pirates shouldn't have taken a deal from the claiming team however crummy if they were dead-set on just releasing him anyway.




There were no takers when Nicasio went on revocable waivers.



This is also about getting guys who might be in next year's bullpen innings. We how have:



Sanchez

Neverauskas

Schugel

Brault



In our bullpen. And Santana will surely be a call-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hutchinson or Holmes added to the bullpen mix with Kingham and Glasnow both slipped into a 6-man rotation. Decisions need to be made about lots of pitchers -- although Indianapolis will make the playoffs and that might slow some of the call-ups.



We just threw in the towel. Maybe this is about $600,000 in savings, but with so many arms that need MLB innings, it's also about 2018's bullpen. There were no innings left for Nicasio and especially LeBlanc.


But don't rosters expand in like three days or so anyhow?

This benefits Nicasio too. He can hopefully jump on a team that will compete. Shouldn't Nicasio want this to happen?



Teams have today and tomorrow to set there playoff rosters. The Rockies should be all over him. I am sure Houston will grab him if he gets that far down the line too. How much time do teams have to claim a player or to say Claim or Pass?

Sort of (but not totally) related, Cards just dealt Mike Leake.

6B5955554173505954515E59380 wrote: Sort of (but not totally) related, Cards just dealt Mike Leake. 
Not sure the return they will get at this point, but Leake is their third best starting pitcher. The Cardinals are five games back and have a winning record. They have seven games left vs the Cubs and four games left vs the Brewers.



The Cardinals might have the easiest September schedule too. Outside the Cubs and Brewers, they play all losing records: Pirates, Padres, Giants, Reds.



It's a weird move as Leake can probably be traded in the offseason for the same package. It looks like the Mariners are going for that last Wild Card spot (3 games back).

I think this is a salary dump for the Cards to possibly allow them to go after Stanton in the offseason.

seems like a kind of guy and "controlability" the Cardinals (or any team) should want to keep.