Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
I am going to enjoy the ride. The line up is a solid line up with possibilities for players to have good years and score runs. The starting pitching has been ok and does have some young potential. Plus, they are 2 1/2 games ahead of the Cubs so that is kind of fun.
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SteadyFreddy
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
After the game with the Twins on Wednesday they have 7 of their next 10 games with the Reds and Marlins two of the “worst” teams in the NL with a 3 game series with the Cubs at Wrigley next week sandwiched in the middle. So let’s say the Bucs can win that game Wednesday with the Twins get to 5-0, go 4-3 or maybe 5-2 against both the Reds and the Marlins and just win 1 game in the Cubs series that would put them at either 11-4 or 10-5 after 15 games which would be great. So there is a pretty opportunity for the Pirates to keep this going the next 2 weeks or so going into the later part of April if they can beat the teams they are supposed to beat.
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OrlandoMerced
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
I think the early season success highlights the dilemma this team was facing.
I feel like what we've seen so far from Harrison, Bell and Taillon could be expected. Cervelli and Polanco, when healthy, are productive ML players. McCutchen is a perennial slow starter, and that's definitely an addition by subtraction in these cold April games, but ultimately, they're a better team with him in 2018. I think the Cole trade is going to be hard to gauge because Cole is for sure going to more effective in Houston than he would have been in Pittsburgh (I don't think they were using him correctly). If Musgrove, Feliz and Moran contribute in their roles, then it will have to be the aggregate of their contributions to consider. I think if comparing what the Pirates get from the Cole trade, with a 4 ERA pitcher that gives up too many HRs, then it's likely they are a better team after that trade.
I think though, that had they done something like sign Tony Watson for the BP and Cobb for the rotation, a stronger pitching staff would have had them in a better place.
I feel like what we've seen so far from Harrison, Bell and Taillon could be expected. Cervelli and Polanco, when healthy, are productive ML players. McCutchen is a perennial slow starter, and that's definitely an addition by subtraction in these cold April games, but ultimately, they're a better team with him in 2018. I think the Cole trade is going to be hard to gauge because Cole is for sure going to more effective in Houston than he would have been in Pittsburgh (I don't think they were using him correctly). If Musgrove, Feliz and Moran contribute in their roles, then it will have to be the aggregate of their contributions to consider. I think if comparing what the Pirates get from the Cole trade, with a 4 ERA pitcher that gives up too many HRs, then it's likely they are a better team after that trade.
I think though, that had they done something like sign Tony Watson for the BP and Cobb for the rotation, a stronger pitching staff would have had them in a better place.
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Bobster21
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
122F313C33393210382F3E38395D0 wrote: I think the early season success highlights the dilemma this team was facing.
I feel like what we've seen so far from Harrison, Bell and Taillon could be expected. Cervelli and Polanco, when healthy, are productive ML players. McCutchen is a perennial slow starter, and that's definitely an addition by subtraction in these cold April games, but ultimately, they're a better team with him in 2018. I think the Cole trade is going to be hard to gauge because Cole is for sure going to more effective in Houston than he would have been in Pittsburgh (I don't think they were using him correctly). If Musgrove, Feliz and Moran contribute in their roles, then it will have to be the aggregate of their contributions to consider. I think if comparing what the Pirates get from the Cole trade, with a 4 ERA pitcher that gives up too many HRs, then it's likely they are a better team after that trade.
I think though, that had they done something like sign Tony Watson for the BP and Cobb for the rotation, a stronger pitching staff would have had them in a better place.
Also in assessing trades in MLB today, it's necessary to factor in that they traded 2 years of Cole for Musgrove, Feliz and Moran. Had they not traded Cole he would have left in free agency 2 years later anyway. He may even opt to leave Houston at that time, or they could trade him before that time if they feel they can't re-sign him. In the good old days of MLB, we gauged trades only on the return of talent. But in this era, we have to gauge the trade in terms of a combination of talent, salary and years of control. Cole is only 27 and despite his last 2 sub-par years with the Pirates will likely have a long and successful career. But the financial reality is that even without being traded his career would not have involved the Pirates after 2019. So the trade will be a success for the Bucs if the Pirate careers of Musgrove, Feliz and Moran are worth at least as much of 2 more years of Cole would have been.
I feel like what we've seen so far from Harrison, Bell and Taillon could be expected. Cervelli and Polanco, when healthy, are productive ML players. McCutchen is a perennial slow starter, and that's definitely an addition by subtraction in these cold April games, but ultimately, they're a better team with him in 2018. I think the Cole trade is going to be hard to gauge because Cole is for sure going to more effective in Houston than he would have been in Pittsburgh (I don't think they were using him correctly). If Musgrove, Feliz and Moran contribute in their roles, then it will have to be the aggregate of their contributions to consider. I think if comparing what the Pirates get from the Cole trade, with a 4 ERA pitcher that gives up too many HRs, then it's likely they are a better team after that trade.
I think though, that had they done something like sign Tony Watson for the BP and Cobb for the rotation, a stronger pitching staff would have had them in a better place.
Also in assessing trades in MLB today, it's necessary to factor in that they traded 2 years of Cole for Musgrove, Feliz and Moran. Had they not traded Cole he would have left in free agency 2 years later anyway. He may even opt to leave Houston at that time, or they could trade him before that time if they feel they can't re-sign him. In the good old days of MLB, we gauged trades only on the return of talent. But in this era, we have to gauge the trade in terms of a combination of talent, salary and years of control. Cole is only 27 and despite his last 2 sub-par years with the Pirates will likely have a long and successful career. But the financial reality is that even without being traded his career would not have involved the Pirates after 2019. So the trade will be a success for the Bucs if the Pirate careers of Musgrove, Feliz and Moran are worth at least as much of 2 more years of Cole would have been.
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
222E2F747D747C71766973440 wrote: BP is very shaky. Maybe they'll become more effective when the weather warms up. But Santana, Neverauskas, Smoker and Feliz have been at best inconsistent.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see this for a big chunk of the season. Feliz looked really bad in the first game and looked really good today. Santana looked dominant the other day and then looked really bad today. I think this will continue with these young guys.
I think Smoker maybe on thin ice. He pitched to one hitter and gave up a double. On Friday I believe they brought him in to relieve Rivero and gave up a big hit to tie the game. He has not been reliable at all.
Agree 100%. Bucs will send one pitcher down when we lose the DH and I'd bet you that guy will be Smoker.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see this for a big chunk of the season. Feliz looked really bad in the first game and looked really good today. Santana looked dominant the other day and then looked really bad today. I think this will continue with these young guys.
I think Smoker maybe on thin ice. He pitched to one hitter and gave up a double. On Friday I believe they brought him in to relieve Rivero and gave up a big hit to tie the game. He has not been reliable at all.
Agree 100%. Bucs will send one pitcher down when we lose the DH and I'd bet you that guy will be Smoker.
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Bobster21
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
597E6F6B6E734C786F6E6E730A0 wrote: I am as critical with this management team as anybody is with this team believe me but all the negativity with this team still even when they are 4-0 right now is just ridiculous. It still seems like for every positive in these first four games everybody finds two or three negatives to counter it right back. Not really speaking about anybody on here too much but just people I know on social media and just listening to talk shows. I will continue to be critical of this management team moving forward but for the time being for crying out loud let’s try to enjoy the fact that the Pirates are in 1st place and one of two teams in baseball left that have yet to lose a game.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
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Buccos1313
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:22 pm
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
735952625543434F200 wrote: BP is very shaky. Maybe they'll become more effective when the weather warms up. But Santana, Neverauskas, Smoker and Feliz have been at best inconsistent.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see this for a big chunk of the season. Feliz looked really bad in the first game and looked really good today. Santana looked dominant the other day and then looked really bad today. I think this will continue with these young guys.
I think Smoker maybe on thin ice. He pitched to one hitter and gave up a double. On Friday I believe they brought him in to relieve Rivero and gave up a big hit to tie the game. He has not been reliable at all.
Agree 100%. Bucs will send one pitcher down when we lose the DH and I'd bet you that guy will be Smoker.
They already lost the dh...
I wouldn't be surprised if we see this for a big chunk of the season. Feliz looked really bad in the first game and looked really good today. Santana looked dominant the other day and then looked really bad today. I think this will continue with these young guys.
I think Smoker maybe on thin ice. He pitched to one hitter and gave up a double. On Friday I believe they brought him in to relieve Rivero and gave up a big hit to tie the game. He has not been reliable at all.
Agree 100%. Bucs will send one pitcher down when we lose the DH and I'd bet you that guy will be Smoker.
They already lost the dh...
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
123F32232435226261500 wrote: I am as critical with this management team as anybody is with this team believe me but all the negativity with this team still even when they are 4-0 right now is just ridiculous. It still seems like for every positive in these first four games everybody finds two or three negatives to counter it right back. Not really speaking about anybody on here too much but just people I know on social media and just listening to talk shows. I will continue to be critical of this management team moving forward but for the time being for crying out loud let’s try to enjoy the fact that the Pirates are in 1st place and one of two teams in baseball left that have yet to lose a game.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I certainly want Cutch to succeed. But, I did see that he is off to another slow start. (Insanely SSS I realize.) But, the debate surrounding his trade comes down to one thing...do you value the name on the front of the jersey more or the name on the back? Because 2016-present Andrew McCutchen simply isn't the same player as 2013-2015 Andrew McCutchen. That guy was putting up video game, Hall of Fame worthy numbers. That guy is gone.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I certainly want Cutch to succeed. But, I did see that he is off to another slow start. (Insanely SSS I realize.) But, the debate surrounding his trade comes down to one thing...do you value the name on the front of the jersey more or the name on the back? Because 2016-present Andrew McCutchen simply isn't the same player as 2013-2015 Andrew McCutchen. That guy was putting up video game, Hall of Fame worthy numbers. That guy is gone.
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
141C1F283E1B3C335D0 wrote: I am as critical with this management team as anybody is with this team believe me but all the negativity with this team still even when they are 4-0 right now is just ridiculous. It still seems like for every positive in these first four games everybody finds two or three negatives to counter it right back. Not really speaking about anybody on here too much but just people I know on social media and just listening to talk shows. I will continue to be critical of this management team moving forward but for the time being for crying out loud let’s try to enjoy the fact that the Pirates are in 1st place and one of two teams in baseball left that have yet to lose a game.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I certainly want Cutch to succeed. But, I did see that he is off to another slow start. (Insanely SSS I realize.) But, the debate surrounding his trade comes down to one thing...do you value the name on the front of the jersey more or the name on the back? Because 2016-present Andrew McCutchen simply isn't the same player as 2013-2015 Andrew McCutchen. That guy was putting up video game, Hall of Fame worthy numbers. That guy is gone.
Sure but he wasn't getting paid like a superstar either, and even with his decline was still leading the team in most offensive categories. His .279/.363/.486 slash line from last year would still look pretty good in this lineup.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I certainly want Cutch to succeed. But, I did see that he is off to another slow start. (Insanely SSS I realize.) But, the debate surrounding his trade comes down to one thing...do you value the name on the front of the jersey more or the name on the back? Because 2016-present Andrew McCutchen simply isn't the same player as 2013-2015 Andrew McCutchen. That guy was putting up video game, Hall of Fame worthy numbers. That guy is gone.
Sure but he wasn't getting paid like a superstar either, and even with his decline was still leading the team in most offensive categories. His .279/.363/.486 slash line from last year would still look pretty good in this lineup.
Twinkies@Bucs Home opener Game Thread 4/2...
636279687E3E390D0 wrote: I am as critical with this management team as anybody is with this team believe me but all the negativity with this team still even when they are 4-0 right now is just ridiculous. It still seems like for every positive in these first four games everybody finds two or three negatives to counter it right back. Not really speaking about anybody on here too much but just people I know on social media and just listening to talk shows. I will continue to be critical of this management team moving forward but for the time being for crying out loud let’s try to enjoy the fact that the Pirates are in 1st place and one of two teams in baseball left that have yet to lose a game.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I certainly want Cutch to succeed. But, I did see that he is off to another slow start. (Insanely SSS I realize.) But, the debate surrounding his trade comes down to one thing...do you value the name on the front of the jersey more or the name on the back? Because 2016-present Andrew McCutchen simply isn't the same player as 2013-2015 Andrew McCutchen. That guy was putting up video game, Hall of Fame worthy numbers. That guy is gone.
Sure but he wasn't getting paid like a superstar either, and even with his decline was still leading the team in most offensive categories. His .279/.363/.486 slash line from last year would still look pretty good in this lineup.
I don't disagree. But, is it that far-fetched to think that Dickerson could duplicate that? I don't think it is, personally.
And, I realize, that's kind of beside the point, as Dickerson kind of fell into their laps. It's not like they traded #22, knowing they were going to go out and acquire Dickerson. So, I'm not excusing the FO by any stretch of the imagination. Rather, I'm suggesting that the lineup (as it's currently structured and not how the FO envisioned it before being gifted Dickerson) may be on par with where it was when Cutch was being pencilled in every day.
I think most of us have expressed our dissatisfaction with the organization and predicted a poor season. But that doesn't mean we have to search thru every win for a reason to validate our negative prognosis. I would love to be proven wrong as I think all of us would. I suspect there will be enough losing to validate all of us nay sayers. So let's not miss the chance to smile and enjoy the wins when we get them. And if somehow they put together a good season, then we'll really have an unexpected pleasant surprise.
4 games doesn't give a good idea of the team, good or bad. Especially playing in such cold weather. But the starting pitching has been adequate to good. The bullpen has been poor and the walks are way too numerous. But let's see how they pitch when the baseball feels normal in their hands instead of pitching in 30 degree temps. And the offense with 27 runs in 3rd in the NL after 4 games.
By contrast, the Giants after 4 games have scored 2, yes 2, runs. Both on solo game-winning HRs by Joe Panik. Amazingly, they are 2-2 with a pair of 1-0 wins while losing 2 shutouts. Cutch and Longoria have combined to go 1 for 31 (Cutch's double) without even a walk. So let's enjoy the fun the Bucs have provided in these early games and hope for more of the same.
I certainly want Cutch to succeed. But, I did see that he is off to another slow start. (Insanely SSS I realize.) But, the debate surrounding his trade comes down to one thing...do you value the name on the front of the jersey more or the name on the back? Because 2016-present Andrew McCutchen simply isn't the same player as 2013-2015 Andrew McCutchen. That guy was putting up video game, Hall of Fame worthy numbers. That guy is gone.
Sure but he wasn't getting paid like a superstar either, and even with his decline was still leading the team in most offensive categories. His .279/.363/.486 slash line from last year would still look pretty good in this lineup.
I don't disagree. But, is it that far-fetched to think that Dickerson could duplicate that? I don't think it is, personally.
And, I realize, that's kind of beside the point, as Dickerson kind of fell into their laps. It's not like they traded #22, knowing they were going to go out and acquire Dickerson. So, I'm not excusing the FO by any stretch of the imagination. Rather, I'm suggesting that the lineup (as it's currently structured and not how the FO envisioned it before being gifted Dickerson) may be on par with where it was when Cutch was being pencilled in every day.