46676F466D65020 wrote: 27th in Payroll according to USA TODAY and almost 50 million under the MLB average team payroll, and this is in a year with a bunch of tanking teams.
There's no need to offload salaries, rather they need to obtain talent. They should be sending players with money stuffed into their pockets if it returns bonafide talent
I agree with this. At some point ownership needs to act like they can afford a major league payroll.
Yep, they need to acquire talent for sure. Some of it still in the development stage, some of it in the almost ready for MLB and some that are already MLB capable and not some scrub that someone else does not want. That will take money which I can't figure out where it will come from. It has been my understanding since college econ 50 yrs ago that you need to spend money to make money! I guess that is not true when your money is inherited money!
Possum - I think you may have hit the bullseye. At the end of the day Nutting is a Trust Fund Kid with the $$$ coming from the newspaper business. Can’t think of a worse “education” or preparation for owning a super-dynamic-move-big-piles-of-money-at-a-moment-notice business like baseball. He runs the team like its a newspaper he inherited.
He can’t run either one like the other, or he’ll surely kill one.
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
58515948463C0 wrote: Garbage. Makes you think Polanco has been hitting all month instead of the last couple games
Garbage is correct his real numbers for June are .216/.302/.432.
Garbage is correct his real numbers for June are .216/.302/.432.
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
29283322347473470 wrote: Garbage. Makes you think Polanco has been hitting all month instead of the last couple games
Garbage is correct his real numbers for June are .216/.302/.432.
The post didn't reference June, it said "since May 31st." It just so happens that Polanco went 3-4 with two doubles on May 31st. The stats are right, but, as dmetz noted, it's still garbage for the most part because two specific games are driving the arbitrary time frame. It does tend to show that Meadows has slowed down considerably, though.
Garbage is correct his real numbers for June are .216/.302/.432.
The post didn't reference June, it said "since May 31st." It just so happens that Polanco went 3-4 with two doubles on May 31st. The stats are right, but, as dmetz noted, it's still garbage for the most part because two specific games are driving the arbitrary time frame. It does tend to show that Meadows has slowed down considerably, though.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
4A434B5A542E0 wrote: Garbage. Makes you think Polanco has been hitting all month instead of the last couple games
OK, how about the month of June?
Polanco .306/.421/.457/1.018
Marte .183/.235/.312/.547
Dickerson .263/.300/.303/.603
Meadows .260/.310/.377/.686
I would invite people to compare the down months for these players with the worst "garbage" months for Polanco where everyone wanted to run him out of town. (.198/.311/.436/.747, though the next month wasn't much different other than BA)
I can't believe this ridiculous 4 person OF scheme they're using is taking at atbats away from Polanco for players that aren't performing. :P
J/k of course, but I think we need to revisit this after another month of information. It kind of fell off the map discussion-wise. Wonder why.
OK, how about the month of June?
Polanco .306/.421/.457/1.018
Marte .183/.235/.312/.547
Dickerson .263/.300/.303/.603
Meadows .260/.310/.377/.686
I would invite people to compare the down months for these players with the worst "garbage" months for Polanco where everyone wanted to run him out of town. (.198/.311/.436/.747, though the next month wasn't much different other than BA)
I can't believe this ridiculous 4 person OF scheme they're using is taking at atbats away from Polanco for players that aren't performing. :P
J/k of course, but I think we need to revisit this after another month of information. It kind of fell off the map discussion-wise. Wonder why.
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Bobster21
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
477579796D5F7C75787D7275140 wrote: Garbage. Makes you think Polanco has been hitting all month instead of the last couple games
OK, how about the month of June?
Polanco .306/.421/.457/1.018
Marte .183/.235/.312/.547
Dickerson .263/.300/.303/.603
Meadows .260/.310/.377/.686
I would invite people to compare the down months for these players with the down months for Polanco where everyone wanted to run him out of town.
I can't believe this ridiculous 4 person OF scheme they're using is taking at atbats away from Polanco for players that aren't performing. :P
J/k of course, but I think we need to revisit this after another month of information. It kind of fell off the map discussion-wise. Wonder why.
It would appear the other 3 are not benefiting from the frequent days off. I'm glad Polanco is hitting well now. The problem was that he was allowed to play for so long with an unproductive swing when he wasn't. And even batting 2nd most of that time. It's one thing to just be in a slump. But Polanco had mechanical issues with his swing and where he was standing that had to be corrected if he was ever going to hit again. It was an adjustment he seems to have made. But the team suffered in the meantime. He had about 9 weeks of terrible hitting. Polanco has an option and could have adjusted to his new mechanics for a few weeks as needed in AAA. During that time, he would not have hurt the Pirates and the other 3 would have played more regularly instead of frequently sitting and cooling off. Polanco would now be back and hitting well after straightening himself out and the team would have been better off instead of going so long with a RF who was a dead spot in the order. So while I'm happy to see Polanco hitting so well now, I think the team handled the situation about as poorly as possible. They could have had their cake and ate it too with a recharged Polanco, 3 others who might not have cooled off by sitting often and a few more wins to show for it.
OK, how about the month of June?
Polanco .306/.421/.457/1.018
Marte .183/.235/.312/.547
Dickerson .263/.300/.303/.603
Meadows .260/.310/.377/.686
I would invite people to compare the down months for these players with the down months for Polanco where everyone wanted to run him out of town.
I can't believe this ridiculous 4 person OF scheme they're using is taking at atbats away from Polanco for players that aren't performing. :P
J/k of course, but I think we need to revisit this after another month of information. It kind of fell off the map discussion-wise. Wonder why.
It would appear the other 3 are not benefiting from the frequent days off. I'm glad Polanco is hitting well now. The problem was that he was allowed to play for so long with an unproductive swing when he wasn't. And even batting 2nd most of that time. It's one thing to just be in a slump. But Polanco had mechanical issues with his swing and where he was standing that had to be corrected if he was ever going to hit again. It was an adjustment he seems to have made. But the team suffered in the meantime. He had about 9 weeks of terrible hitting. Polanco has an option and could have adjusted to his new mechanics for a few weeks as needed in AAA. During that time, he would not have hurt the Pirates and the other 3 would have played more regularly instead of frequently sitting and cooling off. Polanco would now be back and hitting well after straightening himself out and the team would have been better off instead of going so long with a RF who was a dead spot in the order. So while I'm happy to see Polanco hitting so well now, I think the team handled the situation about as poorly as possible. They could have had their cake and ate it too with a recharged Polanco, 3 others who might not have cooled off by sitting often and a few more wins to show for it.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
Yeah, he should have sat down for a week or so. But I would speculate that we could have seen these slowdowns from the other players anyhow. Meadows could be the typical call up that cools down after a hot start. Dickerson is showing the same trend that he started last season. Polanco is currently red hot but he's known to be streaky.
Still though, Polanco's "weeks of terrible hitting" was at a .745ish OPS. There was one abyssmal streak for weeks in there where he wasn't hitting anything though.
Still though, Polanco's "weeks of terrible hitting" was at a .745ish OPS. There was one abyssmal streak for weeks in there where he wasn't hitting anything though.
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
I guess some people have to stick to nonsense as long as possible. Polanco isn’t just hitting now. He has a season OPS+ of 119 just as he did when many started complaining about him. He’s been the best offensive player this season on the team of qualifying players. The notion that the Pirates should have sent him to AAA at some point seriously defies all reason. And Sammy is right in that Marte is in as bad a slump right now as anything Polanco experienced but nobody is crying to send him down to find his swing.
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
Polanco should be in the lineup everyday now that he's hitting again. Meadows can play CF if Martes oblique is holding him back. Play the hot bat, sit the slumping bat.
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
351003160A010A0B0E06620 wrote: I guess some people have to stick to nonsense as long as possible. Polanco isn’t just hitting now. He has a season OPS+ of 119 just as he did when many started complaining about him. He’s been the best offensive player this season on the team of qualifying players. The notion that the Pirates should have sent him to AAA at some point seriously defies all reason. And Sammy is right in that Marte is in as bad a slump right now as anything Polanco experienced but nobody is crying to send him down to find his swing.
That's a tough analysis. He has no ancillary value so when his bat vanished for a month he was a negative player. Yep, his OPS+ is 119 now after heating back up. It all depends on when you want to dip the measuring stick into the water, I guess.
Polanco is 0.2 WAR half way through the season. So he's "on pace" for about 0.5 for the season, maybe 1.0. He's such a streaky hitter, hard to know what the final season- long outcome will be or what real "pace" is. If he ends up ripping 25-30 HRs, he's going to end up with solid starter overall numbers in right regardless of the rest of his game.
Marte is at 1.6 WAR right now, despite his terrible month. This is because he has, you know, ancillary value. (defense, baserunning (steals in his case)) He's not completely worthless when he's not hitting well. However his hitting has been so poor since returning from his injury that I'm all in favor of getting him on the bench, since meadows is capable of playing CF.
Perhaps when players with no defensive or baserunning value go into the tank for 3 weeks or a month at a time, they shouldn't be in the lineup regularly... and when they're hot they should definitely be in the lineup regularly?
What I haven't seen is any evidence that all the ample rest has had any effect on our outfielders. If anything, there appears to be a negative correlation with rest vs hitting numbers when it comes to our outfielders. Also OPS+ is only adjusted for park, not for position. If you have a CF with the same OPS+ as a RF you've got a better CF than you do a RF, all else being the same. Although that definitely doesn't matter from building a batting order standpoint...
That's a tough analysis. He has no ancillary value so when his bat vanished for a month he was a negative player. Yep, his OPS+ is 119 now after heating back up. It all depends on when you want to dip the measuring stick into the water, I guess.
Polanco is 0.2 WAR half way through the season. So he's "on pace" for about 0.5 for the season, maybe 1.0. He's such a streaky hitter, hard to know what the final season- long outcome will be or what real "pace" is. If he ends up ripping 25-30 HRs, he's going to end up with solid starter overall numbers in right regardless of the rest of his game.
Marte is at 1.6 WAR right now, despite his terrible month. This is because he has, you know, ancillary value. (defense, baserunning (steals in his case)) He's not completely worthless when he's not hitting well. However his hitting has been so poor since returning from his injury that I'm all in favor of getting him on the bench, since meadows is capable of playing CF.
Perhaps when players with no defensive or baserunning value go into the tank for 3 weeks or a month at a time, they shouldn't be in the lineup regularly... and when they're hot they should definitely be in the lineup regularly?
What I haven't seen is any evidence that all the ample rest has had any effect on our outfielders. If anything, there appears to be a negative correlation with rest vs hitting numbers when it comes to our outfielders. Also OPS+ is only adjusted for park, not for position. If you have a CF with the same OPS+ as a RF you've got a better CF than you do a RF, all else being the same. Although that definitely doesn't matter from building a batting order standpoint...
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Bobster21
Polanco -- A Distressed Asset
456073667A717A7B7E76120 wrote: I guess some people have to stick to nonsense as long as possible. Polanco isn’t just hitting now. He has a season OPS+ of 119 just as he did when many started complaining about him. He’s been the best offensive player this season on the team of qualifying players. The notion that the Pirates should have sent him to AAA at some point seriously defies all reason. And Sammy is right in that Marte is in as bad a slump right now as anything Polanco experienced but nobody is crying to send him down to find his swing.
Gee whiz, I'm terrible sorry to bother you with my nonsense and my notion that seriously defies all reason. Allow me to explain what could have led me to such insanity. In the 9 week period from April 13 thru June 16, Polanco did this:
AB 173
Hits 32
BA .185
OBP .280
SLG .324
OPS .604
Hurdle talked about his swing which was shorter in the 1st 2 weeks of the season but had returned to the long, looping swing that always caused him problems. Polanco was instructed to move back away from the plate to better square up the ball. But that is a significant adjustment because different positioning at the plate gives a different look to every pitch. It took awhile but Polanco seems to have mastered the changes and is now raking. Polanco didn't have to prove he could hit MLB pitching. He had to learn a new approach to hitting. Working on those mechanical issues could have been done at the AAA level so that he could have returned ready to be productive instead of being an anchor for 9 weeks as he struggled to master a new hitting approach. The team was struggling during Polanco's 9 weeks of not hitting, with a 26-32 records in that stretch. Much of that time they were rotating him with 3 more productive hitters so that they rarely had their best lineup on the field.
But I totally see your point, Wrathchild. Polanco is currently hitting very well and if we ignore those 9 consecutive weeks of poor hitting during which he worked on a new hitting approach, his overall stats don't look bad. And hey, what's a measly 9 weeks out of the season while your right fielder hits .185/.280/.324/.604? As long as he's hitting now, we can pretend those other 9 weeks didn't even happen. Now that's a completely sensible notion! Thanks for helping me see the light. ::)
Gee whiz, I'm terrible sorry to bother you with my nonsense and my notion that seriously defies all reason. Allow me to explain what could have led me to such insanity. In the 9 week period from April 13 thru June 16, Polanco did this:
AB 173
Hits 32
BA .185
OBP .280
SLG .324
OPS .604
Hurdle talked about his swing which was shorter in the 1st 2 weeks of the season but had returned to the long, looping swing that always caused him problems. Polanco was instructed to move back away from the plate to better square up the ball. But that is a significant adjustment because different positioning at the plate gives a different look to every pitch. It took awhile but Polanco seems to have mastered the changes and is now raking. Polanco didn't have to prove he could hit MLB pitching. He had to learn a new approach to hitting. Working on those mechanical issues could have been done at the AAA level so that he could have returned ready to be productive instead of being an anchor for 9 weeks as he struggled to master a new hitting approach. The team was struggling during Polanco's 9 weeks of not hitting, with a 26-32 records in that stretch. Much of that time they were rotating him with 3 more productive hitters so that they rarely had their best lineup on the field.
But I totally see your point, Wrathchild. Polanco is currently hitting very well and if we ignore those 9 consecutive weeks of poor hitting during which he worked on a new hitting approach, his overall stats don't look bad. And hey, what's a measly 9 weeks out of the season while your right fielder hits .185/.280/.324/.604? As long as he's hitting now, we can pretend those other 9 weeks didn't even happen. Now that's a completely sensible notion! Thanks for helping me see the light. ::)