081531333D580 wrote: Everyone makes fun of the pirates because they're one of the worst 2-3 organizations in baseball. Not because they try to find talent in weird places, like India, Lithuania, or South Africa. They need to try harder or do better.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
The baseball people I know, disagree with the baseball people you know.
It's the fans fault again. If only they didn't expect to win a division every year, it would have actually happened once in the past 26 years! Thanks for clarifying PMike.
What do you want to see...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
What do you want to see...
1215030B0512555920070D01090C4E030F0D600 wrote: Everyone makes fun of the pirates because they're one of the worst 2-3 organizations in baseball. Not because they try to find talent in weird places, like India, Lithuania, or South Africa. They need to try harder or do better.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
PMike, I respect you a lot, but you know this is an unfair statement. Right?
Perhaps. I suppose my response is an emotional one based on the way I perceive this board right now. Every single thread is laced with incredible negativity. I have really liked posting here over the many years. I have really liked reading the wide variety of perspectives. This summer, the board has moved to an overwhelming negative stance. It really feels like every thread gets subverted into something negative, and typically the same talking points. It also seems like anyone who takes an opposing stance gets crushed, insulted, or mocked.
Now, there are certainly lots of reasons to be negative about this team and the organization. I get it. I share many of the frustrations. However, it's not all negative. Things aren't black and white. This team is only a couple of games below .500. They are not world beaters, but they are hanging around. Even with an atrocious last month or so. Plus, many of their more important players are in the first couple years of their pro experience. I think that is fascinating because it is interesting to see how players develop and figure it out...or not.
My response may have been a bit over simplified, but I think there is some truth to it.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
PMike, I respect you a lot, but you know this is an unfair statement. Right?
Perhaps. I suppose my response is an emotional one based on the way I perceive this board right now. Every single thread is laced with incredible negativity. I have really liked posting here over the many years. I have really liked reading the wide variety of perspectives. This summer, the board has moved to an overwhelming negative stance. It really feels like every thread gets subverted into something negative, and typically the same talking points. It also seems like anyone who takes an opposing stance gets crushed, insulted, or mocked.
Now, there are certainly lots of reasons to be negative about this team and the organization. I get it. I share many of the frustrations. However, it's not all negative. Things aren't black and white. This team is only a couple of games below .500. They are not world beaters, but they are hanging around. Even with an atrocious last month or so. Plus, many of their more important players are in the first couple years of their pro experience. I think that is fascinating because it is interesting to see how players develop and figure it out...or not.
My response may have been a bit over simplified, but I think there is some truth to it.
What do you want to see...
2C252D3C32480 wrote: Everyone makes fun of the pirates because they're one of the worst 2-3 organizations in baseball. Not because they try to find talent in weird places, like India, Lithuania, or South Africa. They need to try harder or do better.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
The baseball people I know, disagree with the baseball people you know.
It's the fans fault again. If only they didn't expect to win a division every year, it would have actually happened once in the past 26 years! Thanks for clarifying PMike.
You are a good poster when you stay away from twisting people's words into making your repeated points.
Obviously, I never said it was the fans fault. I observed that there is a disconnect that I experience between the fans in this city and their larger perception. Sounds like your experience is different. Great. Your experience doesn't invalidate someone else's experience.
And to be honest, it doesn't matter what any fan thinks or hopes for. The Pirates are going to do what they are going to do. My anger or happiness isn't affecting anyone. Bob Nutting doesn't care if I'm happy or you're happy. The FO doesn't care if you expect a championship or not. If your happiness with the Pirates is based on them winning championships or division titles, then I'd imagine you will be a miserable fan. I want them to win those things...really badly. When they made the playoffs a couple of years ago in Chicago, it was one of the most memorable nights of my life. However, I don't like being a negative person and I will not allow this team or peripheral aspects of the team make me negative person.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
The baseball people I know, disagree with the baseball people you know.
It's the fans fault again. If only they didn't expect to win a division every year, it would have actually happened once in the past 26 years! Thanks for clarifying PMike.
You are a good poster when you stay away from twisting people's words into making your repeated points.
Obviously, I never said it was the fans fault. I observed that there is a disconnect that I experience between the fans in this city and their larger perception. Sounds like your experience is different. Great. Your experience doesn't invalidate someone else's experience.
And to be honest, it doesn't matter what any fan thinks or hopes for. The Pirates are going to do what they are going to do. My anger or happiness isn't affecting anyone. Bob Nutting doesn't care if I'm happy or you're happy. The FO doesn't care if you expect a championship or not. If your happiness with the Pirates is based on them winning championships or division titles, then I'd imagine you will be a miserable fan. I want them to win those things...really badly. When they made the playoffs a couple of years ago in Chicago, it was one of the most memorable nights of my life. However, I don't like being a negative person and I will not allow this team or peripheral aspects of the team make me negative person.
What do you want to see...
1B363B2A2D3C2B6B68590 wrote: What I want to see is a commitment to a plan. Not just moving veterans for prospects who will in turn be moved for prospects after a few years on a Pirate team that is too willing to leave holes unfilled while settling for mediocrity or below average. If a solid core is built, then TBMTIB must find a few impact players to get the team over the hump. The 2013 team competed but settled for a 1B situation of Garrett Jones and Gaby Sanchez and didn't want to replace Clint Barmes. The 2014 team tried to get by at 1B with Ike Davis and Sanchez as well as Locke and Morton in the rotation. The 2015 team knew they had a problem with Locke and Morton but wouldn't upgrade and had a major problem with Alvarez playing 1B.
So when I see players traded, acquired or promoted, I want it to be part of an overall plan to compete for a championship. Just acquiring players who may be productive or have potential isn't enough if the team fails to address other glaring weaknesses that will prevent a serious run. It seems they never make a complete effort to build a great team. Fans have become conditioned to talk about "winning the trade" instead of winning in the post-season. I want to see fans get excited about a complete effort by TBMTIB.
What he said.
So when I see players traded, acquired or promoted, I want it to be part of an overall plan to compete for a championship. Just acquiring players who may be productive or have potential isn't enough if the team fails to address other glaring weaknesses that will prevent a serious run. It seems they never make a complete effort to build a great team. Fans have become conditioned to talk about "winning the trade" instead of winning in the post-season. I want to see fans get excited about a complete effort by TBMTIB.
What he said.
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rucker59@gmail.com
What do you want to see...
071A3E3C32570 wrote: Everyone makes fun of the pirates because they're one of the worst 2-3 organizations in baseball. Not because they try to find talent in weird places, like India, Lithuania, or South Africa. They need to try harder or do better.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
PMike, I respect you a lot, but you know this is an unfair statement. Right?
Perhaps. I suppose my response is an emotional one based on the way I perceive this board right now. Every single thread is laced with incredible negativity. I have really liked posting here over the many years. I have really liked reading the wide variety of perspectives. This summer, the board has moved to an overwhelming negative stance. It really feels like every thread gets subverted into something negative, and typically the same talking points. It also seems like anyone who takes an opposing stance gets crushed, insulted, or mocked.
Now, there are certainly lots of reasons to be negative about this team and the organization. I get it. I share many of the frustrations. However, it's not all negative. Things aren't black and white. This team is only a couple of games below .500. They are not world beaters, but they are hanging around. Even with an atrocious last month or so. Plus, many of their more important players are in the first couple years of their pro experience. I think that is fascinating because it is interesting to see how players develop and figure it out...or not.
My response may have been a bit over simplified, but I think there is some truth to it.
Reading this post and your response to Dmetz, I actually agree with you on many points. If the game ceases to be fun, then what's the point? Is it really so bad as a Pirate fan that the fun is gone? If yes, why hang around? If no, why make every thread a cesspool of negativity?
To answer those questions from my perspective:
If the game ceases to be fun, I won't punish myself. So, I must still be having fun. That means I'm having fun even when I or others are critical of the organization. I love baseball, and there is no way I can suddenly stop being a Pirates fan and start following another team. You mentioned the Cubs game, I was at the Reds wildcard game. These are some of the best memories I have. And with my family as well.
Over the years I have given the organization a fair amount of my money. And this year, while I cut back, I still have a decent "investment" into the team. We make a choice as a family; we buy tickets rather than take an extended vacation. No regrets, and none this year.
So why the criticism? For a couple of reasons. First, compared to most Pirate boards, this is still the best for honest-to-goodness baseball talk. The way I figure it, if OBN is critical then there MUST really be an issue!
Second, for me, the focus is based on something that is actually kind of personal - the FO has and, as far as I can tell, continues to present to the public the worse possible "face": they simply will not tell us the truth. I'm not talking about streaching the truth, or twisting it a bit, I'm talking about bold-faced lies and unfounded accusations, some of them directed directly to the fans. I don't need to go over these again, I've stated them enough where you know of what I'm speaking. There is little I dislike more.
Third, the FO manages to stir the pot on a fairly regular basis, they are their own worse enemy. They just need to shut up. Don't tell us that they'll spend more money if we come out to the park when previous promises to that effect have proven to be meaningless.
Fourth, it really is hard to find much to be encouraged about. Heck, I remember years of positive posts about the farm system when there was nothing else. But the farm has proven to be vastly overrated, we wait on the next projected star-player to get to Pittsburgh only to watch them underperform. We watch bad fundamentals many nights. Rosters that really do not seem to make sense many nights. last year we watch the team carry 2 OFers. A manager that gets testy if the wrong question is asked. A team that can't decide if it should rebuild or maintain. On and on it goes.
I guess I'll have to say, to be a Pirates' fan right now places us into a situation that is not representative of the rest of MLB. Any conversation about the Pirates is almost naturally going to have an element of negativity because normal MLB solutions don't seem to be available to the Pirates.
Actually, in my (limited) experience, it's only the Pirates fans that make fun of the organization. The baseball people that I know beyond the city (and who are fans of other teams) have a pretty solid respect for the Pirates and view them as a team with some upside now and in the future. IMHO, it's only the super Pirates fans who expect them to win the division every year and be competing against the Yankees for world championships.
PMike, I respect you a lot, but you know this is an unfair statement. Right?
Perhaps. I suppose my response is an emotional one based on the way I perceive this board right now. Every single thread is laced with incredible negativity. I have really liked posting here over the many years. I have really liked reading the wide variety of perspectives. This summer, the board has moved to an overwhelming negative stance. It really feels like every thread gets subverted into something negative, and typically the same talking points. It also seems like anyone who takes an opposing stance gets crushed, insulted, or mocked.
Now, there are certainly lots of reasons to be negative about this team and the organization. I get it. I share many of the frustrations. However, it's not all negative. Things aren't black and white. This team is only a couple of games below .500. They are not world beaters, but they are hanging around. Even with an atrocious last month or so. Plus, many of their more important players are in the first couple years of their pro experience. I think that is fascinating because it is interesting to see how players develop and figure it out...or not.
My response may have been a bit over simplified, but I think there is some truth to it.
Reading this post and your response to Dmetz, I actually agree with you on many points. If the game ceases to be fun, then what's the point? Is it really so bad as a Pirate fan that the fun is gone? If yes, why hang around? If no, why make every thread a cesspool of negativity?
To answer those questions from my perspective:
If the game ceases to be fun, I won't punish myself. So, I must still be having fun. That means I'm having fun even when I or others are critical of the organization. I love baseball, and there is no way I can suddenly stop being a Pirates fan and start following another team. You mentioned the Cubs game, I was at the Reds wildcard game. These are some of the best memories I have. And with my family as well.
Over the years I have given the organization a fair amount of my money. And this year, while I cut back, I still have a decent "investment" into the team. We make a choice as a family; we buy tickets rather than take an extended vacation. No regrets, and none this year.
So why the criticism? For a couple of reasons. First, compared to most Pirate boards, this is still the best for honest-to-goodness baseball talk. The way I figure it, if OBN is critical then there MUST really be an issue!
Second, for me, the focus is based on something that is actually kind of personal - the FO has and, as far as I can tell, continues to present to the public the worse possible "face": they simply will not tell us the truth. I'm not talking about streaching the truth, or twisting it a bit, I'm talking about bold-faced lies and unfounded accusations, some of them directed directly to the fans. I don't need to go over these again, I've stated them enough where you know of what I'm speaking. There is little I dislike more.
Third, the FO manages to stir the pot on a fairly regular basis, they are their own worse enemy. They just need to shut up. Don't tell us that they'll spend more money if we come out to the park when previous promises to that effect have proven to be meaningless.
Fourth, it really is hard to find much to be encouraged about. Heck, I remember years of positive posts about the farm system when there was nothing else. But the farm has proven to be vastly overrated, we wait on the next projected star-player to get to Pittsburgh only to watch them underperform. We watch bad fundamentals many nights. Rosters that really do not seem to make sense many nights. last year we watch the team carry 2 OFers. A manager that gets testy if the wrong question is asked. A team that can't decide if it should rebuild or maintain. On and on it goes.
I guess I'll have to say, to be a Pirates' fan right now places us into a situation that is not representative of the rest of MLB. Any conversation about the Pirates is almost naturally going to have an element of negativity because normal MLB solutions don't seem to be available to the Pirates.
-
Bobster21
What do you want to see...
I agree with your points VA. To me, once a fan, always a fan. We may be critical fans. We may be frustrated and point out the negative things that bother us but we're still fans. Otherwise we wouldn't care or even discuss it.
I've gone thru the exciting 1960s and 70s, the dreadful 80s, the fun and ultimate disappointments of 1990-92, the dreadful 20 year losing streak, and now the Nutting regime. During those 20 years, losing was expected and accepted. It was a depressing way to root for a team but "it is what it is" and most us us would never abandon our Pirates regardless. And to their credit, TBMTIB seemed have a real plan, something McClatchy/Littlefield did not. We saw the frution of the plan with 3 winning seasons and all too brief post season appearances in 2013-15. We anticipated bigger and better things to come from the organization that seemed to be headed in the right direction and, after 98 wins and a franchise attendance record in 2015, would have the resources they promised to spend "when the time was right."
Instead, they took their foot off the pedal and regressed with reduced spending, and lesser talent. Meanwhile, they give conflicting stories about whether they are rebuilding or competing, seem more interested in resting players and giving everyone a turn while rarely fielding the best lineup and repeating the prior line that they'll spend when attendance rises, which was already proven to be a false statement. To me, this is even more frustrating than the McClatchy/Littlefield losers who never gave themselves a chance. Nutting's regime seemed to know what it was doing, had a good plan, had success and then scrapped it all while lowering payroll in the face of increased revenue, including this year's $50 million bonus. I feel more angry this year than in prior years because TBMTIB seems to know exactly what it is doing while letting the team regress and lying to the fans about it. Unlike the previous regime, this one knows what to do and how to do it and just chooses not to.
I've gone thru the exciting 1960s and 70s, the dreadful 80s, the fun and ultimate disappointments of 1990-92, the dreadful 20 year losing streak, and now the Nutting regime. During those 20 years, losing was expected and accepted. It was a depressing way to root for a team but "it is what it is" and most us us would never abandon our Pirates regardless. And to their credit, TBMTIB seemed have a real plan, something McClatchy/Littlefield did not. We saw the frution of the plan with 3 winning seasons and all too brief post season appearances in 2013-15. We anticipated bigger and better things to come from the organization that seemed to be headed in the right direction and, after 98 wins and a franchise attendance record in 2015, would have the resources they promised to spend "when the time was right."
Instead, they took their foot off the pedal and regressed with reduced spending, and lesser talent. Meanwhile, they give conflicting stories about whether they are rebuilding or competing, seem more interested in resting players and giving everyone a turn while rarely fielding the best lineup and repeating the prior line that they'll spend when attendance rises, which was already proven to be a false statement. To me, this is even more frustrating than the McClatchy/Littlefield losers who never gave themselves a chance. Nutting's regime seemed to know what it was doing, had a good plan, had success and then scrapped it all while lowering payroll in the face of increased revenue, including this year's $50 million bonus. I feel more angry this year than in prior years because TBMTIB seems to know exactly what it is doing while letting the team regress and lying to the fans about it. Unlike the previous regime, this one knows what to do and how to do it and just chooses not to.
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OrlandoMerced
What do you want to see...
I think the important thing that we've seen since this thread was created was Bell and Polanco looking like major leaguers again. I think if those two prove to be competent major league starters, that changes the foundation for 2019. Looking ahead to next year salary commitment and the abundance of players in their pre-arb years capable of playing major roles, you really have to wonder how they plan on improving. By letting Mercer and Sean Rod walk, and finding a home for Nova and Freese this could be the 25-man roster (I made some guesses on Feliz and Dickerson):
C Cervelli $11,500,000
1B Bell $600,000
2B Harrison $10,500,000
SS Newman $550,000
3B Moran $600,000
RF Polanco $6,100,000
CF Marte $10,333,334
LF Meadows $550,000
1P Taillon $600,000
2P Musgrove $600,000
3P Williams $600,000
4P Kuhl $600,000
5P Kingham $550,000
BN Dickerson $8,500,000
BN Diaz $550,000
BN Luplow $550,000
BN Kramer/Moroff $550,000
BN Osuna/Frazier $550,000
RP Vazquez $4,500,000
RP Crick $550,000
RP Glasnow $550,000
RP Rodriguez $550,000
RP Feliz $1,200,000
RP Santana $550,000
RP Brault $550,000
Total $62,833,334
I look at this roster, and I see the most glaring need at the top of the rotation. I think Glasnow will need another year in the bullpen before trying again with him in the rotation. If I'm NH I'm keeping an eye on the Hamels trade market, if it comes down enough, maybe you can can make some kind of deal with Hayes and Mitchell. Also, I'd also like to see what would be necessary to get one of the Mets' aces. I would make Keller available in a trade for one of the Mets' aces. Having Williams, Kingham, Taillon and Musgrove makes Keller moveable.
C Cervelli $11,500,000
1B Bell $600,000
2B Harrison $10,500,000
SS Newman $550,000
3B Moran $600,000
RF Polanco $6,100,000
CF Marte $10,333,334
LF Meadows $550,000
1P Taillon $600,000
2P Musgrove $600,000
3P Williams $600,000
4P Kuhl $600,000
5P Kingham $550,000
BN Dickerson $8,500,000
BN Diaz $550,000
BN Luplow $550,000
BN Kramer/Moroff $550,000
BN Osuna/Frazier $550,000
RP Vazquez $4,500,000
RP Crick $550,000
RP Glasnow $550,000
RP Rodriguez $550,000
RP Feliz $1,200,000
RP Santana $550,000
RP Brault $550,000
Total $62,833,334
I look at this roster, and I see the most glaring need at the top of the rotation. I think Glasnow will need another year in the bullpen before trying again with him in the rotation. If I'm NH I'm keeping an eye on the Hamels trade market, if it comes down enough, maybe you can can make some kind of deal with Hayes and Mitchell. Also, I'd also like to see what would be necessary to get one of the Mets' aces. I would make Keller available in a trade for one of the Mets' aces. Having Williams, Kingham, Taillon and Musgrove makes Keller moveable.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
What do you want to see...
5D707D6C6B7A6D2D2E1F0 wrote: I agree with your points VA. To me, once a fan, always a fan. We may be critical fans. We may be frustrated and point out the negative things that bother us but we're still fans. Otherwise we wouldn't care or even discuss it.
I've gone thru the exciting 1960s and 70s, the dreadful 80s, the fun and ultimate disappointments of 1990-92, the dreadful 20 year losing streak, and now the Nutting regime. During those 20 years, losing was expected and accepted. It was a depressing way to root for a team but "it is what it is" and most us us would never abandon our Pirates regardless. And to their credit, TBMTIB seemed have a real plan, something McClatchy/Littlefield did not. We saw the frution of the plan with 3 winning seasons and all too brief post season appearances in 2013-15. We anticipated bigger and better things to come from the organization that seemed to be headed in the right direction and, after 98 wins and a franchise attendance record in 2015, would have the resources they promised to spend "when the time was right."
Instead, they took their foot off the pedal and regressed with reduced spending, and lesser talent. Meanwhile, they give conflicting stories about whether they are rebuilding or competing, seem more interested in resting players and giving everyone a turn while rarely fielding the best lineup and repeating the prior line that they'll spend when attendance rises, which was already proven to be a false statement. To me, this is even more frustrating than the McClatchy/Littlefield losers who never gave themselves a chance. Nutting's regime seemed to know what it was doing, had a good plan, had success and then scrapped it all while lowering payroll in the face of increased revenue, including this year's $50 million bonus. I feel angrier this year than in prior years because TBMTIB seems to know exactly what it is doing while letting the team regress and lying to the fans about it. Unlike the previous regime, this one knows what to do and how to do it and just chooses not to.
Your point about being angrier now than under the old regime is really good. "The old days" just seemed hopeless. Now it feels personal.
I've gone thru the exciting 1960s and 70s, the dreadful 80s, the fun and ultimate disappointments of 1990-92, the dreadful 20 year losing streak, and now the Nutting regime. During those 20 years, losing was expected and accepted. It was a depressing way to root for a team but "it is what it is" and most us us would never abandon our Pirates regardless. And to their credit, TBMTIB seemed have a real plan, something McClatchy/Littlefield did not. We saw the frution of the plan with 3 winning seasons and all too brief post season appearances in 2013-15. We anticipated bigger and better things to come from the organization that seemed to be headed in the right direction and, after 98 wins and a franchise attendance record in 2015, would have the resources they promised to spend "when the time was right."
Instead, they took their foot off the pedal and regressed with reduced spending, and lesser talent. Meanwhile, they give conflicting stories about whether they are rebuilding or competing, seem more interested in resting players and giving everyone a turn while rarely fielding the best lineup and repeating the prior line that they'll spend when attendance rises, which was already proven to be a false statement. To me, this is even more frustrating than the McClatchy/Littlefield losers who never gave themselves a chance. Nutting's regime seemed to know what it was doing, had a good plan, had success and then scrapped it all while lowering payroll in the face of increased revenue, including this year's $50 million bonus. I feel angrier this year than in prior years because TBMTIB seems to know exactly what it is doing while letting the team regress and lying to the fans about it. Unlike the previous regime, this one knows what to do and how to do it and just chooses not to.
Your point about being angrier now than under the old regime is really good. "The old days" just seemed hopeless. Now it feels personal.
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rucker59@gmail.com
What do you want to see...
1B2638353A303B193126373130540 wrote: I think the important thing that we've seen since this thread was created was Bell and Polanco looking like major leaguers again. I think if those two prove to be competent major league starters, that changes the foundation for 2019. Looking ahead to next year salary commitment and the abundance of players in their pre-arb years capable of playing major roles, you really have to wonder how they plan on improving. By letting Mercer and Sean Rod walk, and finding a home for Nova and Freese this could be the 25-man roster (I made some guesses on Feliz and Dickerson):
C Cervelli $11,500,000
1B Bell $600,000
2B Harrison $10,500,000
SS Newman $550,000
3B Moran $600,000
RF Polanco $6,100,000
CF Marte $10,333,334
LF Meadows $550,000
1P Taillon $600,000
2P Musgrove $600,000
3P Williams $600,000
4P Kuhl $600,000
5P Kingham $550,000
BN Dickerson $8,500,000
BN Diaz $550,000
BN Luplow $550,000
BN Kramer/Moroff $550,000
BN Osuna/Frazier $550,000
RP Vazquez $4,500,000
RP Crick $550,000
RP Glasnow $550,000
RP Rodriguez $550,000
RP Feliz $1,200,000
RP Santana $550,000
RP Brault $550,000
Total $62,833,334
I look at this roster, and I see the most glaring need at the top of the rotation. I think Glasnow will need another year in the bullpen before trying again with him in the rotation. If I'm NH I'm keeping an eye on the Hamels trade market, if it comes down enough, maybe you can can make some kind of deal with Hayes and Mitchell. Also, I'd also like to see what would be necessary to get one of the Mets' aces. I would make Keller available in a trade for one of the Mets' aces. Having Williams, Kingham, Taillon and Musgrove makes Keller moveable.
Good projection. It makes me think the team can surprise some people and maybe compete, just like I felt this past March. To be a good team, Polanco and Bell have to be good major leaguers. So far they have been very poor major leaguers.
From your list, I can not believe both Dickerson and Marte will be on the team. At a minimum that moves $8M off the books = $54M payroll. They should be able to add a legit starter. Maybe a #2 and a #3 type to go with Tallion and the next best two. Then this team could be a very good team. We know they aren't going to carry a $125M payroll, surely they'll carry a $75M payroll.
C Cervelli $11,500,000
1B Bell $600,000
2B Harrison $10,500,000
SS Newman $550,000
3B Moran $600,000
RF Polanco $6,100,000
CF Marte $10,333,334
LF Meadows $550,000
1P Taillon $600,000
2P Musgrove $600,000
3P Williams $600,000
4P Kuhl $600,000
5P Kingham $550,000
BN Dickerson $8,500,000
BN Diaz $550,000
BN Luplow $550,000
BN Kramer/Moroff $550,000
BN Osuna/Frazier $550,000
RP Vazquez $4,500,000
RP Crick $550,000
RP Glasnow $550,000
RP Rodriguez $550,000
RP Feliz $1,200,000
RP Santana $550,000
RP Brault $550,000
Total $62,833,334
I look at this roster, and I see the most glaring need at the top of the rotation. I think Glasnow will need another year in the bullpen before trying again with him in the rotation. If I'm NH I'm keeping an eye on the Hamels trade market, if it comes down enough, maybe you can can make some kind of deal with Hayes and Mitchell. Also, I'd also like to see what would be necessary to get one of the Mets' aces. I would make Keller available in a trade for one of the Mets' aces. Having Williams, Kingham, Taillon and Musgrove makes Keller moveable.
Good projection. It makes me think the team can surprise some people and maybe compete, just like I felt this past March. To be a good team, Polanco and Bell have to be good major leaguers. So far they have been very poor major leaguers.
From your list, I can not believe both Dickerson and Marte will be on the team. At a minimum that moves $8M off the books = $54M payroll. They should be able to add a legit starter. Maybe a #2 and a #3 type to go with Tallion and the next best two. Then this team could be a very good team. We know they aren't going to carry a $125M payroll, surely they'll carry a $75M payroll.
What do you want to see...
5E637D707F757E5C7463727475110 wrote: I think the important thing that we've seen since this thread was created was Bell and Polanco looking like major leaguers again. I think if those two prove to be competent major league starters, that changes the foundation for 2019. Looking ahead to next year salary commitment and the abundance of players in their pre-arb years capable of playing major roles, you really have to wonder how they plan on improving. By letting Mercer and Sean Rod walk, and finding a home for Nova and Freese this could be the 25-man roster (I made some guesses on Feliz and Dickerson):
C Cervelli $11,500,000
1B Bell $600,000
2B Harrison $10,500,000
SS Newman $550,000
3B Moran $600,000
RF Polanco $6,100,000
CF Marte $10,333,334
LF Meadows $550,000
1P Taillon $600,000
2P Musgrove $600,000
3P Williams $600,000
4P Kuhl $600,000
5P Kingham $550,000
BN Dickerson $8,500,000
BN Diaz $550,000
BN Luplow $550,000
BN Kramer/Moroff $550,000
BN Osuna/Frazier $550,000
RP Vazquez $4,500,000
RP Crick $550,000
RP Glasnow $550,000
RP Rodriguez $550,000
RP Feliz $1,200,000
RP Santana $550,000
RP Brault $550,000
Total $62,833,334
I look at this roster, and I see the most glaring need at the top of the rotation. I think Glasnow will need another year in the bullpen before trying again with him in the rotation. If I'm NH I'm keeping an eye on the Hamels trade market, if it comes down enough, maybe you can can make some kind of deal with Hayes and Mitchell. Also, I'd also like to see what would be necessary to get one of the Mets' aces. I would make Keller available in a trade for one of the Mets' aces. Having Williams, Kingham, Taillon and Musgrove makes Keller moveable.
Nice post. I think under this scenario there is no way that Dickerson is bench outfielder making over 8 million. He will be traded for something (hopefully a good pitcher) and his money applied to that players salary. At this stage of the season it is too early to say that Meadows will be the 2019 starter but that is realistic best case outcome.
C Cervelli $11,500,000
1B Bell $600,000
2B Harrison $10,500,000
SS Newman $550,000
3B Moran $600,000
RF Polanco $6,100,000
CF Marte $10,333,334
LF Meadows $550,000
1P Taillon $600,000
2P Musgrove $600,000
3P Williams $600,000
4P Kuhl $600,000
5P Kingham $550,000
BN Dickerson $8,500,000
BN Diaz $550,000
BN Luplow $550,000
BN Kramer/Moroff $550,000
BN Osuna/Frazier $550,000
RP Vazquez $4,500,000
RP Crick $550,000
RP Glasnow $550,000
RP Rodriguez $550,000
RP Feliz $1,200,000
RP Santana $550,000
RP Brault $550,000
Total $62,833,334
I look at this roster, and I see the most glaring need at the top of the rotation. I think Glasnow will need another year in the bullpen before trying again with him in the rotation. If I'm NH I'm keeping an eye on the Hamels trade market, if it comes down enough, maybe you can can make some kind of deal with Hayes and Mitchell. Also, I'd also like to see what would be necessary to get one of the Mets' aces. I would make Keller available in a trade for one of the Mets' aces. Having Williams, Kingham, Taillon and Musgrove makes Keller moveable.
Nice post. I think under this scenario there is no way that Dickerson is bench outfielder making over 8 million. He will be traded for something (hopefully a good pitcher) and his money applied to that players salary. At this stage of the season it is too early to say that Meadows will be the 2019 starter but that is realistic best case outcome.