OnlyBucs

180521232D480 wrote: In 1969  rookie Richie Hebner hit .301 8 homers 47 rbi and 23 doubles. As of today Colin Moran is hitting.274 with 8 homers 37 rbi and 13 doubles. Moran is not hitting for the high batting average as did  Hebner, but the other stats should be very comparable at seasons end.


moran is a replacement level player.  He's doing the things he needs to do in order to succeed worse now than a month ago.



But sure.   Somebody back in 1960 did something and that's all we need to know




He had a total of 34 MLB at bats going into this season.  He is a bit old for a rookie at 25, but he basically had no major league experience.  I think he is having a really solid season as he is figuring it all out.  There is certainly lots of room for improvement.



If he was in his 3rd or 4th season in the majors I'd be ready to call him replacement level.  Not at this point.


I like getting the Hebner reminder as it was great to think that the Bucs had Hebner, Al Oliver and Sanguillen all starting as rookies in 1969.  Hebner was youngest at 21, Oliver was 22, and Sangy was 25. 24 year old Freddy Patek also was a regular. I would be very happy if Moran matches Hebner with his bat (at least ops wise), Hebner had ops of at least 801 in his first six seasons.

I was hoping for more power but it`s still too early to give up yet . Looks to be a lefty Steve Buchelle type player.

I understand in theory the decision process. Ideally you want someone who plays excellent defense and hits for both average and at least occasional power. I also understand those players are few and very far between, so teams make compromises. A lot of times you will see teams accept a little bit of deficiency on the defensive side to get someone who hits better. We seem to have a lot of players where we've accepted a little (or a lot) of deficiency in defense in return for the promise of hitting at some unspecified time in the future. Right now, we've got hope they can hit but no hope they can (or ever can) field.

4A48525442270 wrote: I understand in theory the decision process. Ideally you want someone who plays excellent defense and hits for both average and at least occasional power. I also understand those players are few and very far between, so teams make compromises. A lot of times you will see teams accept a little bit of deficiency on the defensive side to get someone who hits better. We seem to have a lot of players where we've accepted a little (or a lot) of deficiency in defense in return for the promise of hitting at some unspecified time in the future. Right now, we've got hope they can hit but no hope they can (or ever can) field.

Well stated! Unfortunate too that we don't even have a DH option which could help hide a bad glove.

54496D6F61040 wrote: In 1969  rookie Richie Hebner hit .301 8 homers 47 rbi and 23 doubles. As of today Colin Moran is hitting.274 with 8 homers 37 rbi and 13 doubles. Moran is not hitting for the high batting average as did  Hebner, but the other stats should be very comparable at seasons end.

moran is a replacement level player.  He's doing the things he needs to do in order to succeed worse now than a month ago.

But sure.   Somebody back in 1960 did something and that's all we need to know


He had a total of 34 MLB at bats going into this season.  He is a bit old for a rookie at 25, but he basically had no major league experience.  I think he is having a really solid season as he is figuring it all out.  There is certainly lots of room for improvement.

If he was in his 3rd or 4th season in the majors I'd be ready to call him replacement level.  Not at this point.

Solid season?  He's replacement level now and what you're saying is that there's "certainly room for improvement"?   His production is interchangable with a generic AAAA player! 

 If he gets better, you're right, he may not be replacement level. How much better does he have to get in order to be a good starter?
What do his minor league lines point to him doing? 

Can we wait around for 3 years while a guy sucks for hopes that he justifies a trade? This isn't A ball.   Best thing that could happen is for us to trade him so we don't waste a season on a backup at best trying to justify a trade. I fully expect we will not move on because of how he was acquired.   If Moran was an internal guy, we would be moving or moving him to 1st where there may be some future if he can field it.

I do think there are signs that the FO gets it since they won't let him hit vs LHP and they've been playing Freese more often.  They recognize the defensive incomptance.
I'm naively hoping they move on quickly. 

301400080D610 wrote: I understand in theory the decision process. Ideally you want someone who plays excellent defense and hits for both average and at least occasional power. I also understand those players are few and very far between, so teams make compromises. A lot of times you will see teams accept a little bit of deficiency on the defensive side to get someone who hits better. We seem to have a lot of players where we've accepted a little (or a lot) of deficiency in defense in return for the promise of hitting at some unspecified time in the future. Right now, we've got hope they can hit but no hope they can (or ever can) field.

Well stated! Unfortunate too that we don't even have a DH option which could help hide a bad glove.


Don't worry about it. Kang just needs to get healthy, and it's happening. He's light years better than Moran ever will be

Has there been any report on Kang? I heard he had a hand issue but then nothing more.

3A333B2A245E0 wrote: I understand in theory the decision process. Ideally you want someone who plays excellent defense and hits for both average and at least occasional power. I also understand those players are few and very far between, so teams make compromises. A lot of times you will see teams accept a little bit of deficiency on the defensive side to get someone who hits better. We seem to have a lot of players where we've accepted a little (or a lot) of deficiency in defense in return for the promise of hitting at some unspecified time in the future. Right now, we've got hope they can hit but no hope they can (or ever can) field.

Well stated! Unfortunate too that we don't even have a DH option which could help hide a bad glove.


Don't worry about it.   Kang just needs to get healthy, and it's happening.     He's light years better than Moran ever will be


We've got more than one bad glove to hide.

37352F293F5A0 wrote: Has there been any report on Kang? I heard he had a hand issue but then nothing more.

I heard he was dressed and coaching 1b in Indy last game.   He's gotta be getting close?  Sprained wrist "not effecting his daily life, just baseball activities" report from two weeks ago.     Bad luck but hopefully any day now.

I think Reasonable to assume there's no break or ligament damage or it would have long been reported. Sprained wrist.

515850414F350 wrote: In 1969  rookie Richie Hebner hit .301 8 homers 47 rbi and 23 doubles. As of today Colin Moran is hitting.274 with 8 homers 37 rbi and 13 doubles. Moran is not hitting for the high batting average as did  Hebner, but the other stats should be very comparable at seasons end.

moran is a replacement level player.  He's doing the things he needs to do in order to succeed worse now than a month ago.

But sure.   Somebody back in 1960 did something and that's all we need to know


He had a total of 34 MLB at bats going into this season.  He is a bit old for a rookie at 25, but he basically had no major league experience.  I think he is having a really solid season as he is figuring it all out.  There is certainly lots of room for improvement.

If he was in his 3rd or 4th season in the majors I'd be ready to call him replacement level.  Not at this point.

Solid season?  He's replacement level now and what you're saying is that there's "certainly room for improvement"?   His production is interchangable with a generic AAAA player! 

 If he gets better, you're right, he may not be replacement level. How much better does he have to get in order to be a good starter?
What do his minor league lines point to him doing? 

Can we wait around for 3 years while a guy sucks for hopes that he justifies a trade? This isn't A ball.   Best thing that could happen is for us to trade him so we don't waste a season on a backup at best trying to justify a trade.   I fully expect we will not move on because of how he was acquired.   If Moran was an internal guy, we would be moving or moving him to 1st where there may be some future if he can field it.

I do think there are signs that the FO gets it since they won't let him hit vs LHP and they've been playing Freese more often.  They recognize the defensive incomptance.
I'm naively hoping they move on quickly. 

Yeah he is at best a part time player. If the power would've translated maybe, but his slugging is hanging around .400. If the slugging was around .475?? Maybe. His .OPS+ is 105. With the terrible defense that's not good enough. Rip the band aid off quick.