Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
Bucs stay 4 back of the 2nd wildcard as the Braves lose. That yet again sets up another one of these key important Sunday afternoon games for the Pirates at PNC Park which they always have a hard time winning especially this season for whatever reason. The Pirates are now tied with the Cards at 57-54 so a huge 2 game swing in the standings will happen for whoever wins this rubber match game tomorrow. Hurdle like always better have his best lineup available and all the bullpen arms had better be available as well.
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
Cervelli can play 1b competitively. Thats a good break for us and SHOULD prove to be useful.
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Bobster21
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
61535F5F4B795A535E5B5453320 wrote: If your starters can't go 5 innings i'm not sure the other things matter.
That's when a manager has to earn his money and figure out a way to keep his team in the game, especially when it's still tied. Rodriguez had thrown 5 entire pitches the day before and the team was off the previous day. Kela threw 16 pitches the day before and had last pitched before that on 7/29. But when Nova only went 4, Hurdle went into "forget the game/save the BP" mode. He's always very willing to sacrifice the game at hand to save players for later. Just like his numerous weak lineups to keep his players fresh for late in the season. Yet they've had losing records the past 2 Septembers and lose too many games along the way because he doesn't give them their best chance to win. And after presumably giving up on yesterday's game in the 5th to give the BP a better chance to win today, he'll probably weaken the team otherwise and start S-Rod.
That's when a manager has to earn his money and figure out a way to keep his team in the game, especially when it's still tied. Rodriguez had thrown 5 entire pitches the day before and the team was off the previous day. Kela threw 16 pitches the day before and had last pitched before that on 7/29. But when Nova only went 4, Hurdle went into "forget the game/save the BP" mode. He's always very willing to sacrifice the game at hand to save players for later. Just like his numerous weak lineups to keep his players fresh for late in the season. Yet they've had losing records the past 2 Septembers and lose too many games along the way because he doesn't give them their best chance to win. And after presumably giving up on yesterday's game in the 5th to give the BP a better chance to win today, he'll probably weaken the team otherwise and start S-Rod.
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
NH has received many accolades for the additions of both Kela and Archer. As all have noted, the additions should help this year and in both of the next two years.
In looking at the moment, if the Bucs really want to compete this year NH must recognize that the team needs even more help in the pen.
They rightfully sent Brault back to AAA, but management needs to recognize that the team can't carry both McCrae and the Never Ask Guy. Perhaps 1 as a mop-up guy, but not both. There are other relievers out there on the waiver wire. Time to go for someone like Tyler Clippard from the Jays.
NH --- You did more than most expected at the deadline. Time to keep trying to give this team the best opportunity to compete.
Also, I have been in the dump Hurdle camp for a long time. The game in which Hurdle pitched Anderson will be as burned in my (fading) memory banks as much as Lloyd walking off the field with first base.
And, for those who want to bring Freese back, the team already has a $6 mil option on him for next year, with a .5 mil buy-out. The team surely could afford to bring him back if they don't try to resign either Jordy or S-Rod and they pay Harrison the buy-out amount on his option.
In looking at the moment, if the Bucs really want to compete this year NH must recognize that the team needs even more help in the pen.
They rightfully sent Brault back to AAA, but management needs to recognize that the team can't carry both McCrae and the Never Ask Guy. Perhaps 1 as a mop-up guy, but not both. There are other relievers out there on the waiver wire. Time to go for someone like Tyler Clippard from the Jays.
NH --- You did more than most expected at the deadline. Time to keep trying to give this team the best opportunity to compete.
Also, I have been in the dump Hurdle camp for a long time. The game in which Hurdle pitched Anderson will be as burned in my (fading) memory banks as much as Lloyd walking off the field with first base.
And, for those who want to bring Freese back, the team already has a $6 mil option on him for next year, with a .5 mil buy-out. The team surely could afford to bring him back if they don't try to resign either Jordy or S-Rod and they pay Harrison the buy-out amount on his option.
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steve49
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
210C01101706115152630 wrote: The Braves look like they are going to lose tonight to the Mets so a missed opportunity by the Pirates tonight to pick up a full game on the Braves in the wildcard because Hurdle wants to use his worst two pitchers the last 4-5 innings in this game. These are just decisions and mistakes that cannot happen when you are in the middle of a pennant race and there are just about 50 games yet. This is why it’s time for Hurdle to go I’ve seen enough.
They take stolen bases away for fielder's indifference. Can they take losses away for manager's indifference?
That's pretty funny.
Fact is most of these old timers are now dated. The game is no longer for the Bud Grants of baseball. I live in CA , so I watch a few angel games here and there. The only manager I have seen worse than Hurdle is Mike Scioscia. I can't believe he hung on that long
They take stolen bases away for fielder's indifference. Can they take losses away for manager's indifference?
That's pretty funny.
Fact is most of these old timers are now dated. The game is no longer for the Bud Grants of baseball. I live in CA , so I watch a few angel games here and there. The only manager I have seen worse than Hurdle is Mike Scioscia. I can't believe he hung on that long
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
33010D0D192B08010C090601600 wrote: If your starters can't go 5 innings i'm not sure the other things matter.
Since it was tied, you need to play to win. I think a much better strategy than using McRae would be to just pretend it was the 6th or 7th inning and manage from there.
The Cards starter only went 4 innings too. You need to try and keep the other team from scoring and you don't do that by pitching McRae.
Facing a bad Cardinals bullpen you just expect your team to score and if you need to use McRae later maybe he is protecting a 3 or 4 run lead.
The worst move possible is to use your weakest pitchers first in a tie game. If you do that much the game isn't going to be tied for very long.
Since it was tied, you need to play to win. I think a much better strategy than using McRae would be to just pretend it was the 6th or 7th inning and manage from there.
The Cards starter only went 4 innings too. You need to try and keep the other team from scoring and you don't do that by pitching McRae.
Facing a bad Cardinals bullpen you just expect your team to score and if you need to use McRae later maybe he is protecting a 3 or 4 run lead.
The worst move possible is to use your weakest pitchers first in a tie game. If you do that much the game isn't going to be tied for very long.
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
Not defending Hurdle, but I think McRae was acting the role of the long reliever. Archer left early the day before. Nova was out early in that game. They needed to use someone to eat up some innings. The problem is they don't have anyone to do that with Brault in Indy and Glasnow traded (not that I disagree with those moves). In 2015, they had Blanton who would come into a game list yesterday and shut they door. They really need that guy now.
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SteadyFreddy
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
I still don’t like McRae getting used in that situation with the game tied in a pivotal game. I don’t like Hurdle coming out saying that he was worried about what might happen on Sunday had they went to someone else besides McRae. You can’t manage like that because you don’t know how Sunday’s game is going to play out. Win the game you’re currently playing and worry about tomorrow’s game tomorrow.
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Bobster21
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
504D696B65000 wrote: Not defending Hurdle, but I think McRae was acting the role of the long reliever. Archer left early the day before. Nova was out early in that game. They needed to use someone to eat up some innings. The problem is they don't have anyone to do that with Brault in Indy and Glasnow traded (not that I disagree with those moves). In 2015, they had Blanton who would come into a game list yesterday and shut they door. They really need that guy now.
Yes, that was Hurdle's thinking. They had added McRae for that purpose and Hurdle wasn't going to stray from it. That's the problem. Richard Rodriguez was fresh, having thrown only 6 pitches a day earlier and the team was off the day before that. Rodriguez has often been used for more than 1 inning. He threw more than 2 innings three times this year and 1+ innings another 5 times. The Bucs badly needed to take at least 2 of 3 and Rodriguez could have gotten them to the 7th where the back end could pitch 1 inning each in a close game. But Hurdle committed to using McRae because he was designated the long guy in the BP even tho he wasn't the best option. It's Hurdle's responsibility to put his team in the best position to win. But too often he fails to do that.
Yes, that was Hurdle's thinking. They had added McRae for that purpose and Hurdle wasn't going to stray from it. That's the problem. Richard Rodriguez was fresh, having thrown only 6 pitches a day earlier and the team was off the day before that. Rodriguez has often been used for more than 1 inning. He threw more than 2 innings three times this year and 1+ innings another 5 times. The Bucs badly needed to take at least 2 of 3 and Rodriguez could have gotten them to the 7th where the back end could pitch 1 inning each in a close game. But Hurdle committed to using McRae because he was designated the long guy in the BP even tho he wasn't the best option. It's Hurdle's responsibility to put his team in the best position to win. But too often he fails to do that.
Cards@Bucs 8/4 Game Thread...
15082C2E20450 wrote: Not defending Hurdle, but I think McRae was acting the role of the long reliever. Archer left early the day before. Nova was out early in that game. They needed to use someone to eat up some innings. The problem is they don't have anyone to do that with Brault in Indy and Glasnow traded (not that I disagree with those moves). In 2015, they had Blanton who would come into a game list yesterday and shut they door. They really need that guy now.
this makes sense if you are down a run or more, to me in a tie game you want to do your best to shut down the other team not just have someone who can go more than one inning. You shouldn't put your worst reliever in first in a tie game.
The innings eater doesn't have to come in for the fifth inning.
I have full confidence though that Hurdle would make the same move in a playoff series and no one would say it was a good move in that situation.
this makes sense if you are down a run or more, to me in a tie game you want to do your best to shut down the other team not just have someone who can go more than one inning. You shouldn't put your worst reliever in first in a tie game.
The innings eater doesn't have to come in for the fifth inning.
I have full confidence though that Hurdle would make the same move in a playoff series and no one would say it was a good move in that situation.