OnlyBucs

7F676562627564637E7F690C0 wrote: Well, that was disappointing. But I don't really fault Hurdle for that. I suppose you could make the case that he should have gone to Lyons earlier. But would you rather have Pence face the lefty Lyons or the righty Feliz? Without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I'd rather he face Feliz. It's frustrating when that many guys are not available in your bullpen. Maybe they should have DL'd Kela and lengthened their bullpen a little bit.
This attitude is why the Pirates haven't won a championship in years.  You don't give away any game, a game like this can cost you many more games.  To sit and watch Feliz haplessness and not be ready to make a move is absurd.  That's kind of what you have a manager for, to manage situations.  So frustrating to see anyone support such stupidity makes me sick.


Well aren't you a breath of fresh air...

686063544267404F210 wrote: Well, that was disappointing. But I don't really fault Hurdle for that. I suppose you could make the case that he should have gone to Lyons earlier. But would you rather have Pence face the lefty Lyons or the righty Feliz? Without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I'd rather he face Feliz. It's frustrating when that many guys are not available in your bullpen. Maybe they should have DL'd Kela and lengthened their bullpen a little bit.
This attitude is why the Pirates haven't won a championship in years.  You don't give away any game, a game like this can cost you many more games.  To sit and watch Feliz haplessness and not be ready to make a move is absurd.  That's kind of what you have a manager for, to manage situations.  So frustrating to see anyone support such stupidity makes me sick.


Well aren't you a breath of fresh air...
Rationalizing Hurdles ineptness is just the same old air I've been forced to breathe for years. Not my job to excuse or overlook CH ineptness.

756D6F68687F6E69747563060 wrote: Well, that was disappointing. But I don't really fault Hurdle for that. I suppose you could make the case that he should have gone to Lyons earlier. But would you rather have Pence face the lefty Lyons or the righty Feliz? Without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I'd rather he face Feliz. It's frustrating when that many guys are not available in your bullpen. Maybe they should have DL'd Kela and lengthened their bullpen a little bit.
This attitude is why the Pirates haven't won a championship in years.  You don't give away any game, a game like this can cost you many more games.  To sit and watch Feliz haplessness and not be ready to make a move is absurd.  That's kind of what you have a manager for, to manage situations.  So frustrating to see anyone support such stupidity makes me sick.


Well aren't you a breath of fresh air...
Rationalizing Hurdles ineptness is just the same old air I've been forced to breathe for years.  Not my job to excuse or overlook CH ineptness. 


I couldn’t care less what you think of Clint Hurdle.

I didn’t like both Crick and Vazquez not being available today when you had 3 days off in the last 10 days and really needed to win this game with as tough as this upcoming road trip was looking. Why not let Vazquez get 4 outs there and get Pence out in the 8th and secure the game there. I just don’t like the way Hurdle continually rests guys and how he feels managing for the games coming up are more important then the game you’re playing today. That’s what I felt like Clint did today with this game and it’s beyond frustrating.

Since Kela was placed on injured list after the game, the Bucs chose to go into this game short handed.



I can see them being in a bind because of that.



IMO, that means you need to try and get two innings out of Liriano after he had a good first inning.



The other thing this game shows is that it is hard to have 4 or 5 relievers come in and shut down the other team.



It is really inexcusable though to go into today's game knowing Kela was not able to pitch and not having a replacement. rather than Lyons in the 8th it should have been Nightmare (and if he wasn't available either then it is just double down on management for not being prepared.



If you had told me last week when they said Kingham and Brault were going to start I'd have been very satisfied to get 8 innings out of them.

So ... it just pains me to watch Feliz pitch as well as Neveraskmewhy. They just don't seem to have it when pushed to the MLB level.



This kid has always been a long shot, he doesn't throw hard from what I've read. As a 32nd rounder from a tiny school he has never, ever been a prospect - and he's been in our system for a long, long time. But I would love to see what DuRapau could do with his great control and four pitch arsenal. Currently 14.1 inning pitched H5 BB5 K18 ER1 WHIP 0.70. Put him on the 40-man roster and get him up for either one of those guys. With Kela out, we need someone who can at least look like he can get guys out. I'd just like to see what he can do. He's the proverbial Cinderella story and I have a hunch (for whatever that's worth).



There are times I despise the whole "prospect" high-ceiling, low-floor speculation. Some guys just deserve a shot because they often surprise you. I think he will get guys out consistently since he has done that his whole career. I don't care that he's not 6'6" and only weighs 175 lbs. Today Feliz came in and I white-knuckled (agree with those who wanted Liriano to go another inning after only, what, 13 pitches). If DuRapau is your choice as closer for your AAA team, why isn't he in line for a call up?



http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?si ... g/2019/ALL

1031242D152C37243120450 wrote: So ... it just pains me to watch Feliz pitch as well as Neveraskmewhy. They just don't seem to have it when pushed to the MLB level.



This kid has always been a long shot, he doesn't throw hard from what I've read. As a 32nd rounder from a tiny school he has never, ever been a prospect - and he's been in our system for a long, long time. But I would love to see what DuRapau could do with his great control and four pitch arsenal. Currently 14.1 inning pitched H5 BB5 K18 ER1 WHIP 0.70. Put him on the 40-man roster and get him up for either one of those guys. With Kela out, we need someone who can at least look like he can get guys out. I'd just like to see what he can do. He's the proverbial Cinderella story and I have a hunch (for whatever that's worth).



There are times I despise the whole "prospect" high-ceiling, low-floor speculation. Some guys just deserve a shot because they often surprise you. I think he will get guys out consistently since he has done that his whole career. I don't care that he's not 6'6" and only weighs 175 lbs. Today Feliz came in and I white-knuckled (agree with those who wanted Liriano to go another inning after only, what, 13 pitches). If DuRapau is your choice as closer for your AAA team, why isn't he in line for a call up?



http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?si ... g/2019/ALL




I read on Bucs Dugout yesterday that NH hinted strongly he was next one to come up and it could happen this week. I guess with Kela gone we will see Montana.

4B6D6C7B6D7D0E0 wrote: Since Kela was placed on injured list after the game, the Bucs chose to go into this game short handed.



I can see them being in a bind because of that.



IMO, that means you need to try and get two innings out of Liriano after he had a good first inning.



The other thing this game shows is that it is hard to have 4 or 5 relievers come in and shut down the other team.



It is really inexcusable though to go into today's game knowing Kela was not able to pitch and not having a replacement.  rather than Lyons in the 8th it should have been Nightmare (and if he wasn't available either then it is just double down on management for not being prepared.



If you had told me last week when they said Kingham and Brault were going to start I'd have been very satisfied to get 8 innings out of them.




After game Clint said that Crick wasn't going to pitch today because he had pitched 3 out of past 4, same with Nightmare (except he would in save situation)  I know it was not technically save situation but the bases loaded at bat by Pence should have been considered one.



I wasn't really that upset about blowing the game but in hindsight I am getting disgusted because their explanations don't make sense to me.



With Kela, Crick and Nightmare not available and Kingham going 4 you have to try and get two out of Liriano.



This game was played by a poorly set roster by the gm and then managed horribly by Clint.



Probably 50-50 chance to win tomorrow, going into the 8th today it was 80-20.

725544404558675344454558210 wrote: I didn’t like both Crick and Vazquez not being available today when you had 3 days off in the last 10 days and really needed to win this game with as tough as this upcoming road trip was looking. Why not let Vazquez get 4 outs there and get Pence out in the 8th and secure the game there. I just don’t like the way Hurdle continually rests guys and how he feels managing for the games coming up are more important then the game you’re playing today. That’s what I felt like Clint did today with this game and it’s beyond frustrating.
I agree 100%. I've said many times that Hurdle simply doesn't adequately prioritize winning. Over the years I've seen too many Sunday lineups that had very little chance of winning. I've seen key players given a "scheduled day off" in a key series. I've seen too many relievers made unavailable or limited to 1 inning regardless of how few pitches they throw. Hurdle always seems to be managing for a future game that never comes. It's always ok to restrict your own efforts to win today's game with the idea that it will enhance the chances of winning some future game. Today, Kela was out and 6 different relievers had pitched yesterday. But no one had gone more than 1 inning. Liriano had thrown 22 pitches but no one else had thrown more than 16. And they were all off the day before. So today Hurdle decides to give Crick and Vazquez the day off. That means 0 pitches Monday, 16 for Crick and 11 for Vazquez Tuesday and 0 Wednesday. Is that much rest really necessary? Lyons threw 15 yesterday and 21 today. I'm surprised he didn't keel over dead from those 36 pitches in 2 days. And if Hurdle had allowed any reliever to go more than 1 inning yesterday (after they had been off the day before) when the BP had to cover 5 innings, he wouldn't have needed 6 pitchers for those 5 innings and wouldn't have felt he had to take counterproductive measures today to rest his BP. Any manager can occasionally have things blow up on him but far too often it just seems like Hurdle isn't giving his team the best chance to win.

OK. I don't know about Crick. Hurdle said he was unavailable. Fine. What I do care about is Kela, and Hurdle said Vazquez was available "for a save only." Seems to me that the game could have been saved in the 8th inning. Use Vazquez to get out of the jam in the 8th, and let Lyons work the ninth with a four run lead.



What REALLY bugs me though is that they put Kela on the injured list AFTER the game. First, it's been four days. What could they possibly have learned today that they didn't know yesterday? Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they really didn't know and Kela truly was a "game time" decision. Fine. They should have had another arm basically on a taxi squad. What if this game went extra innings, which it well could have? They were basically out of pitchers. And it's not like no one could have seen this coming. It's not like it came out of left field that they were going to go with two spot starters this week, neither of whom had really been built up much beyond what they could give.



This was a bad loss. I doubt that it causes a tailspin, but we've had about six or seven games this year that really should have been W's turn into L's.