0F29283F29394A0 wrote: I don't think a floor would do much good. Probably come along with an increase in minimum salary and/or starting arbitration and free agency earlier.
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
A floor would absolutely improve the Pirates chances of being competitive. If the average ML payroll is $150M and the floor was established at less say 110-120M you don’t think the Pirates could improve their roster spending an additional 50M on the ML payroll???
No because salaries would rise in general. The other teams spending less than the floor would need to pay more too.
I don't think the Bucs would be replacing somebody like Moran with Anthony Rendon or Jeff Donaldson.
Probably 10 million would go towards just raising minimum salary.
I do think the Bucs could pay that much now and then could improve the team by having more experienced players.
But a floor is not going to be established in a vacuum. If earlier free agency is a result the Bucs will end up losing out.
There is only a few teams spending below a floor level.
It really wouldn’t matter if free agency was granted a year earlier, or Arbitration started earlier. The Pirates would just trade those players in the same timeline that they do now.
However if they were forced to have a minimum ML payroll they might have to actually keep a star player
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
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JollyRoger
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NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
Caps have made for more of a competitive balance in the other three major American professional sports leagues. Still, cap or no cap, as long as Bob Nutting owns the Pirates, they’re MLB,s Washington Generals...just there so their opponent has someone to play on a given night.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
A floor would be more help to us than any cap, I agree.
It's hard to imagine NH keeping his job. Cole is looking at a possible AL CY Young, Meadows hit his 22nd HR.
We have a suspect starter (Musgrove) one of the worst starters in baseball (archer) and a platoon / backup quality 3rd baseman to show for it.
You could hardly miss more. It's Jason Bay #2
It's hard to imagine NH keeping his job. Cole is looking at a possible AL CY Young, Meadows hit his 22nd HR.
We have a suspect starter (Musgrove) one of the worst starters in baseball (archer) and a platoon / backup quality 3rd baseman to show for it.
You could hardly miss more. It's Jason Bay #2
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
I'm not sure the salary levels are the biggest concern. NH gets a certain amount to spend and is told to put the best team on the field he can with that amount. He wants to do it by using a lot of one to three year players, patching wherever needed. The big problem, as I see it, is he (or his scouts) can't evaluate talent very well. He misses on drafting, he misses on trades. That's him, though, not the budget. The budget becomes an excuse to justify having a lousy team. When he arrived his focus was on pitching. That was one area that couldn't easily be filled other ways, he said. When you look at our pitching you aren't seeing that as a strength, at least at this moment. The failure is that inability to evaluate talent.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
5F5D474157320 wrote: I'm not sure the salary levels are the biggest concern. NH gets a certain amount to spend and is told to put the best team on the field he can with that amount. He wants to do it by using a lot of one to three year players, patching wherever needed. The big problem, as I see it, is he (or his scouts) can't evaluate talent very well. He misses on drafting, he misses on trades. That's him, though, not the budget. The budget becomes an excuse to justify having a lousy team. When he arrived his focus was on pitching. That was one area that couldn't easily be filled other ways, he said. When you look at our pitching you aren't seeing that as a strength, at least at this moment. The failure is that inability to evaluate talent.
I agree, he has been awful over the last couple of seasons across the board. I understand the financial constraints but he is missing on what little he has to deal with. I was actually ok with trading Glasnow, but I thought sending Meadows was a horrible idea. I had hoped he would relegate Polanco too the bench full time. How much better would Meadows make this current lineup?
I agree, he has been awful over the last couple of seasons across the board. I understand the financial constraints but he is missing on what little he has to deal with. I was actually ok with trading Glasnow, but I thought sending Meadows was a horrible idea. I had hoped he would relegate Polanco too the bench full time. How much better would Meadows make this current lineup?
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rucker59@gmail.com
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
78796273652522160 wrote: I'm not sure the salary levels are the biggest concern. NH gets a certain amount to spend and is told to put the best team on the field he can with that amount. He wants to do it by using a lot of one to three year players, patching wherever needed. The big problem, as I see it, is he (or his scouts) can't evaluate talent very well. He misses on drafting, he misses on trades. That's him, though, not the budget. The budget becomes an excuse to justify having a lousy team. When he arrived his focus was on pitching. That was one area that couldn't easily be filled other ways, he said. When you look at our pitching you aren't seeing that as a strength, at least at this moment. The failure is that inability to evaluate talent.
I agree, he has been awful over the last couple of seasons across the board. I understand the financial constraints but he is missing on what little he has to deal with. I was actually ok with trading Glasnow, but I thought sending Meadows was a horrible idea. I had hoped he would relegate Polanco too the bench full time. How much better would Meadows make this current lineup?
We simply have no way of evaluating Neal with an average payroll. The guy is behind an impossible 8 ball. Money cures a lot of problems. We do know he has failed terribly with about 50% of average.
Edit: I’m not saying he shouldn’t be fired. I’m saying he’s never had a normal GMs job.
I agree, he has been awful over the last couple of seasons across the board. I understand the financial constraints but he is missing on what little he has to deal with. I was actually ok with trading Glasnow, but I thought sending Meadows was a horrible idea. I had hoped he would relegate Polanco too the bench full time. How much better would Meadows make this current lineup?
We simply have no way of evaluating Neal with an average payroll. The guy is behind an impossible 8 ball. Money cures a lot of problems. We do know he has failed terribly with about 50% of average.
Edit: I’m not saying he shouldn’t be fired. I’m saying he’s never had a normal GMs job.
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rucker59@gmail.com
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
If a floor of $115M were established nine teams would be under this year. Four would be within $20M. Four would be $40M out and that includes the Pirates.
Miami
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Tampa
All below $75M
Establish a tax for any payroll below floor.
Any team below $95M (indexed with an indexed floor) two years in a row must be at floor the next year or face a sale or contraction.
Add this to CBA and I bet the players would allow a much heavier tax for crossing a ceiling of $200M. Currently there are three teams willing to spend above $200M. We can be sure Nutting is hatred by the players across the league. They don’t want any other owners to join his abuse.
Bottom line - if this is enacted Nutting bails out within two years.
Miami
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Tampa
All below $75M
Establish a tax for any payroll below floor.
Any team below $95M (indexed with an indexed floor) two years in a row must be at floor the next year or face a sale or contraction.
Add this to CBA and I bet the players would allow a much heavier tax for crossing a ceiling of $200M. Currently there are three teams willing to spend above $200M. We can be sure Nutting is hatred by the players across the league. They don’t want any other owners to join his abuse.
Bottom line - if this is enacted Nutting bails out within two years.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
if a floor is established unless there are penalties for not exceeding it at times (say at least two of every five years) the Pirates under Nutting would spend up to the cap and wouldn't go over.
That means they would have one of the lowest payrolls in the game year in and year out.
That wouldn't be any different than current situation.
That means they would have one of the lowest payrolls in the game year in and year out.
That wouldn't be any different than current situation.
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rucker59@gmail.com
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
103637203626550 wrote: if a floor is established unless there are penalties for not exceeding it at times (say at least two of every five years) the Pirates under Nutting would spend up to the cap and wouldn't go over.
That means they would have one of the lowest payrolls in the game year in and year out.
That wouldn't be any different than current situation.
Suppose a floor pushes over all payroll average from (I’m totally guessing here, but it’s probably in the ball park) $130M to $140M and the floor pushed the Pirates to $115M (the floor I assumed) the Pirates would be within $25M of average instead of $50-60M under.
More importantly, that payroll would allow the Pirates to do more with arb eligible players and the occasional FA.
The team could do many different things if payroll was larger by $55M.
That means they would have one of the lowest payrolls in the game year in and year out.
That wouldn't be any different than current situation.
Suppose a floor pushes over all payroll average from (I’m totally guessing here, but it’s probably in the ball park) $130M to $140M and the floor pushed the Pirates to $115M (the floor I assumed) the Pirates would be within $25M of average instead of $50-60M under.
More importantly, that payroll would allow the Pirates to do more with arb eligible players and the occasional FA.
The team could do many different things if payroll was larger by $55M.
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johnfluharty
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
4245535B5542050970575D51595C1E535F5D300 wrote: if a floor is established unless there are penalties for not exceeding it at times (say at least two of every five years) the Pirates under Nutting would spend up to the cap and wouldn't go over.
That means they would have one of the lowest payrolls in the game year in and year out.
That wouldn't be any different than current situation.
Suppose a floor pushes over all payroll average from (I’m totally guessing here, but it’s probably in the ball park) $130M to $140M and the floor pushed the Pirates to $115M (the floor I assumed) the Pirates would be within $25M of average instead of $50-60M under.
More importantly, that payroll would allow the Pirates to do more with arb eligible players and the occasional FA.
The team could do many different things if payroll was larger by $55M.
A floor may also cause Nutting to recoup the cost elsewhere, and we'd bet left with a team that spends nothing on scouting, coaching, or signing international players.
That means they would have one of the lowest payrolls in the game year in and year out.
That wouldn't be any different than current situation.
Suppose a floor pushes over all payroll average from (I’m totally guessing here, but it’s probably in the ball park) $130M to $140M and the floor pushed the Pirates to $115M (the floor I assumed) the Pirates would be within $25M of average instead of $50-60M under.
More importantly, that payroll would allow the Pirates to do more with arb eligible players and the occasional FA.
The team could do many different things if payroll was larger by $55M.
A floor may also cause Nutting to recoup the cost elsewhere, and we'd bet left with a team that spends nothing on scouting, coaching, or signing international players.