Hurdle fired
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Hurdle fired
Just been reading how various players feel. Some are very sad that Hurdle is leaving. Others not so much. I get the feeling all the players personally liked Clint regardless of whether or not they think a change might be in order.
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pir ... 1909290196
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pir ... 1909290196
Hurdle fired
I believe 'relieving Hurdle of his duties' (firing him) was the best move for the franchise.
That said, these last few weeks have really been telling with respect to the 'talent' level in the organization. While it sometimes seemed that the Pirates were losing two players a day due to injury, the team finished the 2019 season with a total of 2 position players on the bench who were not injured, and this during a time of expanded rosters. And, quite of few of the players who were receiving playing time did not really warrant a spot on a major league roster, let alone the active major league roster. In short, I didn't like Hurdle as a manager, but the owner and the front office often left him really shy on the talent front.
With respect to Hurdle's replacement, about the only thing that is certain is that whoever is hired will need to come in on the cheap. Nutting can only pay out so much for managing the Pirates, and he is already paying Hurdle.
The Bucs need to have a really good (great is a bit too high of a bar) off-season. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the team's leadership is even close to being up for the task.
That said, these last few weeks have really been telling with respect to the 'talent' level in the organization. While it sometimes seemed that the Pirates were losing two players a day due to injury, the team finished the 2019 season with a total of 2 position players on the bench who were not injured, and this during a time of expanded rosters. And, quite of few of the players who were receiving playing time did not really warrant a spot on a major league roster, let alone the active major league roster. In short, I didn't like Hurdle as a manager, but the owner and the front office often left him really shy on the talent front.
With respect to Hurdle's replacement, about the only thing that is certain is that whoever is hired will need to come in on the cheap. Nutting can only pay out so much for managing the Pirates, and he is already paying Hurdle.
The Bucs need to have a really good (great is a bit too high of a bar) off-season. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the team's leadership is even close to being up for the task.
Hurdle fired
062A22252E093E28384B0 wrote: I believe 'relieving Hurdle of his duties' (firing him) was the best move for the franchise.
That said, these last few weeks have really been telling with respect to the 'talent' level in the organization. While it sometimes seemed that the Pirates were losing two players a day due to injury, the team finished the 2019 season with a total of 2 position players on the bench who were not injured, and this during a time of expanded rosters. And, quite of few of the players who were receiving playing time did not really warrant a spot on a major league roster, let alone the active major league roster. In short, I didn't like Hurdle as a manager, but the owner and the front office often left him really shy on the talent front.
With respect to Hurdle's replacement, about the only thing that is certain is that whoever is hired will need to come in on the cheap. Nutting can only pay out so much for managing the Pirates, and he is already paying Hurdle.
The Bucs need to have a really good (great is a bit too high of a bar) off-season. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the team's leadership is even close to being up for the task.
I think NH's talk about closely evaluating the organization is just BS. He already said a month or so ago that there wouldn't be big changes to roster for next year.
That said, these last few weeks have really been telling with respect to the 'talent' level in the organization. While it sometimes seemed that the Pirates were losing two players a day due to injury, the team finished the 2019 season with a total of 2 position players on the bench who were not injured, and this during a time of expanded rosters. And, quite of few of the players who were receiving playing time did not really warrant a spot on a major league roster, let alone the active major league roster. In short, I didn't like Hurdle as a manager, but the owner and the front office often left him really shy on the talent front.
With respect to Hurdle's replacement, about the only thing that is certain is that whoever is hired will need to come in on the cheap. Nutting can only pay out so much for managing the Pirates, and he is already paying Hurdle.
The Bucs need to have a really good (great is a bit too high of a bar) off-season. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the team's leadership is even close to being up for the task.
I think NH's talk about closely evaluating the organization is just BS. He already said a month or so ago that there wouldn't be big changes to roster for next year.
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Bobster21
Hurdle fired
644840474C6B5C4A5A290 wrote: I believe 'relieving Hurdle of his duties' (firing him) was the best move for the franchise.
That said, these last few weeks have really been telling with respect to the 'talent' level in the organization. While it sometimes seemed that the Pirates were losing two players a day due to injury, the team finished the 2019 season with a total of 2 position players on the bench who were not injured, and this during a time of expanded rosters. And, quite of few of the players who were receiving playing time did not really warrant a spot on a major league roster, let alone the active major league roster. In short, I didn't like Hurdle as a manager, but the owner and the front office often left him really shy on the talent front.
With respect to Hurdle's replacement, about the only thing that is certain is that whoever is hired will need to come in on the cheap. Nutting can only pay out so much for managing the Pirates, and he is already paying Hurdle.
The Bucs need to have a really good (great is a bit too high of a bar) off-season. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the team's leadership is even close to being up for the task.
I agree with all of that. As for the new mgr, (1) Nutting won't pay big bucks for him and (2) no mgr who could command big bucks would want to work in that organization anyway. It has to be someone willing to work for Nutting knowing the impossible constraints that must be worked under. That figures to be someone who is looking to get his first taste of MLB managing (a coach or minor league manager either from this organization or any other) or someone like Jeff Banister who had one stint as a mgr that lasted less than 4 years and would take another opportunity to get back into the MLB mgr ranks. Such candidates don't command huge salaries, which works out well for Nutting.
That said, these last few weeks have really been telling with respect to the 'talent' level in the organization. While it sometimes seemed that the Pirates were losing two players a day due to injury, the team finished the 2019 season with a total of 2 position players on the bench who were not injured, and this during a time of expanded rosters. And, quite of few of the players who were receiving playing time did not really warrant a spot on a major league roster, let alone the active major league roster. In short, I didn't like Hurdle as a manager, but the owner and the front office often left him really shy on the talent front.
With respect to Hurdle's replacement, about the only thing that is certain is that whoever is hired will need to come in on the cheap. Nutting can only pay out so much for managing the Pirates, and he is already paying Hurdle.
The Bucs need to have a really good (great is a bit too high of a bar) off-season. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the team's leadership is even close to being up for the task.
I agree with all of that. As for the new mgr, (1) Nutting won't pay big bucks for him and (2) no mgr who could command big bucks would want to work in that organization anyway. It has to be someone willing to work for Nutting knowing the impossible constraints that must be worked under. That figures to be someone who is looking to get his first taste of MLB managing (a coach or minor league manager either from this organization or any other) or someone like Jeff Banister who had one stint as a mgr that lasted less than 4 years and would take another opportunity to get back into the MLB mgr ranks. Such candidates don't command huge salaries, which works out well for Nutting.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Hurdle fired
Maybe (and I wouldn't even have a problem with it) but "big money" spent on a manager and on a player are two totally different animals. The highest manager in all of baseball this year was 6MM (Maddon and Bochy). The rest were much much lower than that. I would not be shocked either way (established name vs. newcomer).
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
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WiffleballHero
Hurdle fired
64414242577C41494B5C2E0 wrote: http://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/ ... s-that-it/
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Eh, Kovacevic has a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind with Nuttington and Stark going back to the Hoka Hey stuff, so I take whatever he writes about them with an ocean of salt. On the other hand, this organization honestly deserves whatever churlish screeds Kovacevic bangs out at this point.
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Eh, Kovacevic has a Paul Bunyan-sized axe to grind with Nuttington and Stark going back to the Hoka Hey stuff, so I take whatever he writes about them with an ocean of salt. On the other hand, this organization honestly deserves whatever churlish screeds Kovacevic bangs out at this point.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Hurdle fired
Yeah, not that the Pirates don't deserve anything they get, but I actively avoid anything DK has a part in. He's right "up there" with Mark Madden for me in terms of Pittsburgh sports writing personalities.
Hurdle fired
Much like free agency, ownership has reset the salary scale for managers. With Bochy, Maddon, Yost and Hurdle out of the game, I'm not sure how many are making "big" money.
Aaron Boone makes just over one million to manage the Yankees. Alex Cora makes less with the Sox. I think the Bucs can afford that.
Aaron Boone makes just over one million to manage the Yankees. Alex Cora makes less with the Sox. I think the Bucs can afford that.
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Bobster21
Hurdle fired
6D5F53534775565F5257585F3E0 wrote: Maybe (and I wouldn't even have a problem with it) but "big money" spent on a manager and on a player are two totally different animals. The highest manager in all of baseball this year was 6MM (Maddon and Bochy). The rest were much much lower than that. I would not be shocked either way (established name vs. newcomer).
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
Yes but eating contracts is worse for Nutting than for owners less reluctant to spend on their teams. They gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects at the time just to avoid eating any of Liriano's contract a couple years ago. Hurdle was one of MLB's highest paid managers at 3 million. That pales in comparison to player salaries but it's also about the same amount they gave away Dickerson to save. A few years ago they gave Nicasio away just to save $600,000. So whatever they pay the new manager, the total paid out for managing the Pirates will be that amount plus Hurdle's 3 million for the next 2 years. That has to be a concern for the Pirates. But also, an established manager would have to have concerns about working for this organization after seeing how finances severely limited the talent available to Hurdle.
IMHO, the ideal scenario is that someone who sees the Pirates as a chance to get his feet wet as a MLB mgr or someone like Banister who had a brief run and would see this as an opportunity to get another chance would want the job. And if they did a good job, they could get a raise in 2 years after Hurdle's contract is off the books.
People are still acting as if the Pirates have never eaten a contract before.
Yes but eating contracts is worse for Nutting than for owners less reluctant to spend on their teams. They gave up 2 of their top 10 prospects at the time just to avoid eating any of Liriano's contract a couple years ago. Hurdle was one of MLB's highest paid managers at 3 million. That pales in comparison to player salaries but it's also about the same amount they gave away Dickerson to save. A few years ago they gave Nicasio away just to save $600,000. So whatever they pay the new manager, the total paid out for managing the Pirates will be that amount plus Hurdle's 3 million for the next 2 years. That has to be a concern for the Pirates. But also, an established manager would have to have concerns about working for this organization after seeing how finances severely limited the talent available to Hurdle.
IMHO, the ideal scenario is that someone who sees the Pirates as a chance to get his feet wet as a MLB mgr or someone like Banister who had a brief run and would see this as an opportunity to get another chance would want the job. And if they did a good job, they could get a raise in 2 years after Hurdle's contract is off the books.