6E5B4C4C477E4C4C47404C290 wrote: It means that Mustgroove can't carry Cole's jock.
I remember Garret Cole with the Pirates and he was not good at all the last 2 years with the Pirates. I also remember Charlie Morton, and he was just awful. I think has good stuff and is real competitive like Cole. These types can get frustrated with a team if they feel there's no way to win. It's up to Cherington and Shelton to put the best guys on the field showing they can be competitive. It looks like they're just trying to get the 1st pick in the draft. If that's the case they need to have a private talk with guys like Musgrove and Williams.
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
We don't HAVE best guys. That's our problem. 
)))) but, I know what you mean.
I'm not sure that GMs or managers need to do a lot of talking. Everyone knows the MLB drill. Produce, or you run the risk of being replaced by some other LMG who won't produce. After all, Mustgroove was sent to The Burgh to make room for the not very good Cole.
Overall, I agree with you.
)))) but, I know what you mean.I'm not sure that GMs or managers need to do a lot of talking. Everyone knows the MLB drill. Produce, or you run the risk of being replaced by some other LMG who won't produce. After all, Mustgroove was sent to The Burgh to make room for the not very good Cole.
Overall, I agree with you.
-
2drfischer@gmail.c
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
735E53424554430300310 wrote: See what I mean? Make that three strike outs in three at bats.
The Reds announcer called Polanco "a sucker for a high fastball." I'd say the Pirates are suckers for playing him.
BC doesn't have to defend the moves of the prior regime. BC wasn't the one who said Polanco would be part of a dream OF. So I just don't see why Polanco continues to play as if he's too good not to. They are looking at players so why waste time with Polanco? There a solid body of evidence that at his very best he could achieve mediocrity. He's a 7 year veteran, a career .247 hitter with a career best .258. Not a good fielder or base runner. And not even a legit power hitter with only 2 seasons of low 20 HRs as his best. And 4 SBs in the last 4 years. I'd rather see anybody play than Polanco. He has nothing more to prove.
The Pirates kept saying how good he looked in both Spring Training sessions. This new management didn't know what he turns into once the season starts? I don't know how. His body of work over his previous seasons should've made it apparent. They now have a bunch of games to know. Enough already.
I truly hope BC takes a fresh approach and doesn't rely on existing reports about players from before he was hired. I suspect he's being told how much talent Polanco has and how they need to bring it out of him. And if he's listening to the old organizational BS about Polanco then he's probably listening to them on other players too (Neverauskas?, Bell at 1B?). A huge problem this organization has had is its incompetence in assessing talent. BC needs to say "Enough already. If these guys can't do the job after so many chances we'll find someone else."
But this idea that if they keep playing Polanco he'll become the player they always wished he would be but never was...or that if they keep putting Bell at 1B he'll become adequate....or if they keep pitching Neveraukas he'll become a great reliever and pave the way for the Pirates to tap into that rich Lithuanian pitching market ::) is not accomplishing anything.
Agree. Players have bad years, and it's premature to give-up on one when that happens. But after six-plus seasons of Polanco's only consistency being his inconsistency, it's time to rip off the band-aid and start over. Even if he somehow musters a good first four months next year, no GM worth his salt will think Polanco has finally figured it out and will part with a good player or two to acquire him.
The Reds announcer called Polanco "a sucker for a high fastball." I'd say the Pirates are suckers for playing him.
BC doesn't have to defend the moves of the prior regime. BC wasn't the one who said Polanco would be part of a dream OF. So I just don't see why Polanco continues to play as if he's too good not to. They are looking at players so why waste time with Polanco? There a solid body of evidence that at his very best he could achieve mediocrity. He's a 7 year veteran, a career .247 hitter with a career best .258. Not a good fielder or base runner. And not even a legit power hitter with only 2 seasons of low 20 HRs as his best. And 4 SBs in the last 4 years. I'd rather see anybody play than Polanco. He has nothing more to prove.
The Pirates kept saying how good he looked in both Spring Training sessions. This new management didn't know what he turns into once the season starts? I don't know how. His body of work over his previous seasons should've made it apparent. They now have a bunch of games to know. Enough already.
I truly hope BC takes a fresh approach and doesn't rely on existing reports about players from before he was hired. I suspect he's being told how much talent Polanco has and how they need to bring it out of him. And if he's listening to the old organizational BS about Polanco then he's probably listening to them on other players too (Neverauskas?, Bell at 1B?). A huge problem this organization has had is its incompetence in assessing talent. BC needs to say "Enough already. If these guys can't do the job after so many chances we'll find someone else."
But this idea that if they keep playing Polanco he'll become the player they always wished he would be but never was...or that if they keep putting Bell at 1B he'll become adequate....or if they keep pitching Neveraukas he'll become a great reliever and pave the way for the Pirates to tap into that rich Lithuanian pitching market ::) is not accomplishing anything.
Agree. Players have bad years, and it's premature to give-up on one when that happens. But after six-plus seasons of Polanco's only consistency being his inconsistency, it's time to rip off the band-aid and start over. Even if he somehow musters a good first four months next year, no GM worth his salt will think Polanco has finally figured it out and will part with a good player or two to acquire him.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
:(e487B6766656D5B667D617A7D6C6067090 wrote: Yep- #1 pick looking good
As we've discussed elsewhere, it's not set in stone that this year's worst record gets the first pick.
This is quick and dirty, fewest wins for 2019-20 combined:
Tigers: 47+21=68
Orioles: 54+21=75
Royals: 59+20=79
Marlins: 57+24=81
Pirates: 69+14=83
Mariners: 68+22=90
Angels: 72+20=92
Rockies: 71+ 21=92
Blue Jays: 67+26=93
Rangers: 78+17=95
Reds: 75+24=99
Formula where 2020 counts double:
Tigers: 47+21+21=89
Orioles: 54+21+21=96
Pirates: 69+14+14=97
Royals: 59+20+20=99
Marlins: 57+24+24= 105
Tigers have 11 games scheduled, Orioles 12, Royals 11, Pirates 13, Marlins 14
Anyway, if they reach back to 2019, it'll be pretty hard to beat the Tigers.
Edit: I've also seen a suggestion they'll go back 162 games, including about the last hundred games of 2019. Tigers 46-105, with 11 to play, Pirates 54-95, with 13 to play. Tigers really stink.
True that MLB May change the rules for the draft next year.
However it would be a tough sell having the Tigers get the #1 two years in a row given their big improvement this year.
I can envision MLB going to a lottery next year which would be the Pirates luck of having the worst record and having another team snake the #1 pick away. Even worse would be having the large market Red Sox winning the lottery
As we've discussed elsewhere, it's not set in stone that this year's worst record gets the first pick.
This is quick and dirty, fewest wins for 2019-20 combined:
Tigers: 47+21=68
Orioles: 54+21=75
Royals: 59+20=79
Marlins: 57+24=81
Pirates: 69+14=83
Mariners: 68+22=90
Angels: 72+20=92
Rockies: 71+ 21=92
Blue Jays: 67+26=93
Rangers: 78+17=95
Reds: 75+24=99
Formula where 2020 counts double:
Tigers: 47+21+21=89
Orioles: 54+21+21=96
Pirates: 69+14+14=97
Royals: 59+20+20=99
Marlins: 57+24+24= 105
Tigers have 11 games scheduled, Orioles 12, Royals 11, Pirates 13, Marlins 14
Anyway, if they reach back to 2019, it'll be pretty hard to beat the Tigers.
Edit: I've also seen a suggestion they'll go back 162 games, including about the last hundred games of 2019. Tigers 46-105, with 11 to play, Pirates 54-95, with 13 to play. Tigers really stink.
True that MLB May change the rules for the draft next year.
However it would be a tough sell having the Tigers get the #1 two years in a row given their big improvement this year.
I can envision MLB going to a lottery next year which would be the Pirates luck of having the worst record and having another team snake the #1 pick away. Even worse would be having the large market Red Sox winning the lottery
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
This is where I've always agreed with Mike Greenberg.
The first pick should go to the team that DESERVES to get it- the world champion. The Pirates would pick dead last where they belong.
That prevents tanking on the spot; rather, just going through the motions. Successful teams reap the reward, and if a team wants to be successful, it will do all it can to become so.
And, good-bye BOB. Cheapskates will immediately exit stage left.
The first pick should go to the team that DESERVES to get it- the world champion. The Pirates would pick dead last where they belong.
That prevents tanking on the spot; rather, just going through the motions. Successful teams reap the reward, and if a team wants to be successful, it will do all it can to become so.
And, good-bye BOB. Cheapskates will immediately exit stage left.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
251007070C3507070C0B07620 wrote: This is where I've always agreed with Mike Greenberg.
The first pick should go to the team that DESERVES to get it- the world champion. The Pirates would pick dead last where they belong.
That prevents tanking on the spot; rather, just going through the motions. Successful teams reap the reward, and if a team wants to be successful, it will do all it can to become so.
And, good-bye BOB. Cheapskates will immediately exit stage left.
GW. I think you may have partaken in a few too many Iron City’s.
Your suggestion would lead to the rich getting richer. The only way a team in a small market can compete without a salary cap or salary floor is through the draft and low cost International signings.
At any rate; the Bucs now have a 3 game lead with 12 games to go for the #1 pick. I hope Rocker is everything he is being hyped up to be.
The first pick should go to the team that DESERVES to get it- the world champion. The Pirates would pick dead last where they belong.
That prevents tanking on the spot; rather, just going through the motions. Successful teams reap the reward, and if a team wants to be successful, it will do all it can to become so.
And, good-bye BOB. Cheapskates will immediately exit stage left.
GW. I think you may have partaken in a few too many Iron City’s.
Your suggestion would lead to the rich getting richer. The only way a team in a small market can compete without a salary cap or salary floor is through the draft and low cost International signings.
At any rate; the Bucs now have a 3 game lead with 12 games to go for the #1 pick. I hope Rocker is everything he is being hyped up to be.
-
GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
I'm OK with dynasties. I had no problem when the Bucs were division leaders in the 70s and 90s.
People love Good Guys vs. Bad Guys. Beating a great team makes fans feel good.
Reward a team for playing like garbage? No thanks. I have no pity for guys like BOB. Scroo him.
Either play to win or get out.
Win, and reap the rewards.
Bad teams have other ways to improve.
That's where I stand.
People love Good Guys vs. Bad Guys. Beating a great team makes fans feel good.
Reward a team for playing like garbage? No thanks. I have no pity for guys like BOB. Scroo him.
Either play to win or get out.
Win, and reap the rewards.
Bad teams have other ways to improve.
That's where I stand.
-
ArnoldRothstein
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
I can envision MLB going to a lottery next year which would be the Pirates luck of having the worst record and having another team snake the #1 pick away.
I guess one thing in the Pirates' favor is that no one will much care if they get the No. 1, figuring they won't do much with it.
I guess one thing in the Pirates' favor is that no one will much care if they get the No. 1, figuring they won't do much with it.
-
WildwoodDave
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:19 am
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
5B687475767E48756E72696E7F73741A0 wrote: I can envision MLB going to a lottery next year which would be the Pirates luck of having the worst record and having another team snake the #1 pick away.
I guess one thing in the Pirates' favor is that no one will much care if they get the No. 1, figuring they won't do much with it.
We can hope any way- Could be another Cole out there. At least for a little while
I guess one thing in the Pirates' favor is that no one will much care if they get the No. 1, figuring they won't do much with it.
We can hope any way- Could be another Cole out there. At least for a little while
-
Bobster21
Game Thread - 9/15 - Keystone Bumblers @ Reds
407E7B736078787353766172170 wrote: I can envision MLB going to a lottery next year which would be the Pirates luck of having the worst record and having another team snake the #1 pick away.
I guess one thing in the Pirates' favor is that no one will much care if they get the No. 1, figuring they won't do much with it.
We can hope any way- Could be another Cole out there. At least for a little while
The Pirates only got 1 outstanding year from Cole out of the 5 years he was with them. Not much for a #1 overall pick. It doesn't help the Pirates to have the 1st pick if he doesn't reach expectations until he's with another team.
I guess one thing in the Pirates' favor is that no one will much care if they get the No. 1, figuring they won't do much with it.
We can hope any way- Could be another Cole out there. At least for a little while
The Pirates only got 1 outstanding year from Cole out of the 5 years he was with them. Not much for a #1 overall pick. It doesn't help the Pirates to have the 1st pick if he doesn't reach expectations until he's with another team.