OnlyBucs

673127333C26363D3027153238343C397B36550 wrote: I'll bite, should we have really made a deal to make this year's team better?  What player should we have gotten to increase our number of wins by approximately double?
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Here are the top 10 excuses and alibis for not acquiring a player.



1. He is an aging veteran on the decline.

2. He is too injury prone.

3. Acquiring him would bring us no closer to a championship.

4. He would never sign to play in Pittsburgh.

5. He would be a clubhouse cancer.

6. Acquiring him would upset the team chemistry.

7. Signing him would lose financial flexibility for a 1 year player.

8.We already have players just as good as him.

9. We are not the Red Sox or Yankees and they would outbid us.

10.He would block this LMG or that LMG from development.



Is that #3?


Since we can't improve at all 9 positions at once, we shouldn't start with any.


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Yup, if we can't get Mike Trout then we should just fill the team up with LMG's and wait until the year 2032.


Get Mike Trout?  You're officially looney.
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Well, we all know that any FA we would get would be an aging veteran on the decline, or he would be injury prone, or any player that we would acquire would not win  us a championship, or he would never come to Pittsburgh, or he would be a clubhouse cancer, or he would upset the team chemistry, or would result in us losing financial flexibility, or we already have players just as good as anyone out there, or we would get outbid by the Yankees and Red Sox, or he would block our LMG's.  Therefore there is absolutely no way to improve the worst team in all of baseball, so we should just wait for the year 2032.  Then we will make a run.




Everything you stated about free agents not being signed in Pittsburgh have proven to be true, so why do you keep going on about it?  You know it's not going to change.



Now, as for there being no way to improve the worst team in baseball, you're wrong yet again.  Over recent years, the Rays, Royals, Astros, Indians, and Athletics have shown time and again that improving a team is indeed possible. 



It takes time under normal circumstances let alone during a pandemic, and has to be done by the right people.  We know the wrong people are now out of the way and a new group, led by a guy who's had success in the past, is now in charge.  If you'd only give him more than 20 minutes.




How many of the teams listed have won a championship?



Of them, how many have won it during a year when their payroll was in the bottom half of all clubs- let alone where the Pirates love to live?



But, let's keep buying it.



Ben Franklin said it best a few years ago, and it's just as true today:



"People who are good at making excuses are seldom good at anything else."

1F323F2E29382F6F6C5D0 wrote: BC needs to have a vision for when he thinks it is reasonable to make the team a contender. And then a series of moves needs to be made with that goal in mind. Years of control must be considered if a FA is signed or a player is obtained in a trade. Just randomly adding a player or 2 who will be gone in a year might satisfy some fans but won't be any better than doing nothing as far as making the team a contender is concerned. Players who can help need to have contract extensions and areas of need must be identified and addressed with players who will still be around in 2-3 years if that is the target. The minor leagues need to identify the prospects who can legitimately help and ascertain how many years away they are. All of these things have to be done in conjunction with one another if the team is to jell in the near future. Otherwise, it's just a different cast of characters kicking the can. 


I agree. And as one of the few optomists left on this board, I'm not sure that the time to supplement a home grown core with FAs to fill out the roster is that far away.



Hayes, looks like you can build a team around him. Taillon returns. Newman and Reynolds may not be .300 hitters like they were in 2019, but I think they also aren't low .200 hitters.



Nick Gonzales, who knows? He missed the end of his collegiate season and didn't have a real minor league season. But I haven't seen any assessment that he isn't a legit top ten pick. And both he and presumed number one pick Kumar Rocker are college draftees, so it's not not like we are talking about developing eighteen year olds. And the team believes that Oneil Cruz will be back with the team next year.



I'm not against signing free agents, but they should be supplemental, because we all know this franchise will not pony up for a free agent who can be the core of a winning team. I'd love it if the team signed JT Realmuto. But we all know that's not going to happen. I am far more excited about the talent we have than the talent we might be able to get.

I'm not against signing free agents, but

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"I'm not against signing free agents, but I'm against signing free agents."

7552597A370 wrote: BC needs to have a vision for when he thinks it is reasonable to make the team a contender. And then a series of moves needs to be made with that goal in mind. Years of control must be considered if a FA is signed or a player is obtained in a trade. Just randomly adding a player or 2 who will be gone in a year might satisfy some fans but won't be any better than doing nothing as far as making the team a contender is concerned. Players who can help need to have contract extensions and areas of need must be identified and addressed with players who will still be around in 2-3 years if that is the target. The minor leagues need to identify the prospects who can legitimately help and ascertain how many years away they are. All of these things have to be done in conjunction with one another if the team is to jell in the near future. Otherwise, it's just a different cast of characters kicking the can. 


I agree. And as one of the few optomists left on this board, I'm not sure that the time to supplement a home grown core with FAs to fill out the roster is that far away.



Hayes, looks like you can build a team around him. Taillon returns. Newman and Reynolds may not be .300 hitters like they were in 2019, but I think they also aren't low .200 hitters.



Nick Gonzales, who knows? He missed the end of his collegiate season and didn't have a real minor league season. But I haven't seen any assessment that he isn't a legit top ten pick. And both he and presumed number one pick Kumar Rocker are college draftees, so it's not not like we are talking about developing eighteen year olds. And the team believes that Oneil Cruz will be back with the team next year.



I'm not against signing free agents, but they should be supplemental, because we all know this franchise will not pony up for a free agent who can be the core of a winning team. I'd love it if the team signed JT Realmuto. But we all know that's not going to happen. I am far more excited about the talent we have than the talent we might be able to get.


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Is that #3 and #8?

How long's it been since we won anything, anyway?



Just wondering.

3A212C2D242827490 wrote: BC needs to have a vision for when he thinks it is reasonable to make the team a contender. And then a series of moves needs to be made with that goal in mind. Years of control must be considered if a FA is signed or a player is obtained in a trade. Just randomly adding a player or 2 who will be gone in a year might satisfy some fans but won't be any better than doing nothing as far as making the team a contender is concerned. Players who can help need to have contract extensions and areas of need must be identified and addressed with players who will still be around in 2-3 years if that is the target. The minor leagues need to identify the prospects who can legitimately help and ascertain how many years away they are. All of these things have to be done in conjunction with one another if the team is to jell in the near future. Otherwise, it's just a different cast of characters kicking the can. 


I agree. And as one of the few optomists left on this board, I'm not sure that the time to supplement a home grown core with FAs to fill out the roster is that far away.



Hayes, looks like you can build a team around him. Taillon returns. Newman and Reynolds may not be .300 hitters like they were in 2019, but I think they also aren't low .200 hitters.



Nick Gonzales, who knows? He missed the end of his collegiate season and didn't have a real minor league season. But I haven't seen any assessment that he isn't a legit top ten pick. And both he and presumed number one pick Kumar Rocker are college draftees, so it's not not like we are talking about developing eighteen year olds. And the team believes that Oneil Cruz will be back with the team next year.



I'm not against signing free agents, but they should be supplemental, because we all know this franchise will not pony up for a free agent who can be the core of a winning team. I'd love it if the team signed JT Realmuto. But we all know that's not going to happen. I am far more excited about the talent we have than the talent we might be able to get.


______

Is that #3 and #8?


Your list of alibis and excuses are not alibis and excuses when they are true. Your 2nd item blames people for saying they shouldn't get players who are injury prone. Cervelli was known to be injury prone when the Pirates disregarded your advice and acquired him anyway. In 4 of his 5 years as a Pirate he missed large chunks of the season. Turns out he was injury prone. Who knew? No one is saying the Pirates shouldn't make moves. But if the Pirates followed your advice, they'd make a ton of disastrous moves.

A true excuse is still an excuse.  Management knows that fans will accept them....or, enough fans will.



It only becomes a problem for management when that number becomes fewer than "enough."

5A777A6B6C7D6A2A29180 wrote: BC needs to have a vision for when he thinks it is reasonable to make the team a contender. And then a series of moves needs to be made with that goal in mind. Years of control must be considered if a FA is signed or a player is obtained in a trade. Just randomly adding a player or 2 who will be gone in a year might satisfy some fans but won't be any better than doing nothing as far as making the team a contender is concerned. Players who can help need to have contract extensions and areas of need must be identified and addressed with players who will still be around in 2-3 years if that is the target. The minor leagues need to identify the prospects who can legitimately help and ascertain how many years away they are. All of these things have to be done in conjunction with one another if the team is to jell in the near future. Otherwise, it's just a different cast of characters kicking the can. 


I agree. And as one of the few optomists left on this board, I'm not sure that the time to supplement a home grown core with FAs to fill out the roster is that far away.



Hayes, looks like you can build a team around him. Taillon returns. Newman and Reynolds may not be .300 hitters like they were in 2019, but I think they also aren't low .200 hitters.



Nick Gonzales, who knows? He missed the end of his collegiate season and didn't have a real minor league season. But I haven't seen any assessment that he isn't a legit top ten pick. And both he and presumed number one pick Kumar Rocker are college draftees, so it's not not like we are talking about developing eighteen year olds. And the team believes that Oneil Cruz will be back with the team next year.



I'm not against signing free agents, but they should be supplemental, because we all know this franchise will not pony up for a free agent who can be the core of a winning team. I'd love it if the team signed JT Realmuto. But we all know that's not going to happen. I am far more excited about the talent we have than the talent we might be able to get.


______

Is that #3 and #8?


Your list of alibis and excuses are not alibis and excuses when they are true. Your 2nd item blames people for saying they shouldn't get players who are injury prone. Cervelli was known to be injury prone when the Pirates disregarded your advice and acquired him anyway. In 4 of his 5 years as a Pirate he missed large chunks of the season. Turns out he was injury prone. Who knew? No one is saying the Pirates shouldn't make moves. But if the Pirates followed your advice, they'd make a ton of disastrous moves.


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Since every player has probably experienced an injury at one time or another, then they are all injury prone.

4E555859505C533D0 wrote: BC needs to have a vision for when he thinks it is reasonable to make the team a contender. And then a series of moves needs to be made with that goal in mind. Years of control must be considered if a FA is signed or a player is obtained in a trade. Just randomly adding a player or 2 who will be gone in a year might satisfy some fans but won't be any better than doing nothing as far as making the team a contender is concerned. Players who can help need to have contract extensions and areas of need must be identified and addressed with players who will still be around in 2-3 years if that is the target. The minor leagues need to identify the prospects who can legitimately help and ascertain how many years away they are. All of these things have to be done in conjunction with one another if the team is to jell in the near future. Otherwise, it's just a different cast of characters kicking the can. 


I agree. And as one of the few optomists left on this board, I'm not sure that the time to supplement a home grown core with FAs to fill out the roster is that far away.



Hayes, looks like you can build a team around him. Taillon returns. Newman and Reynolds may not be .300 hitters like they were in 2019, but I think they also aren't low .200 hitters.



Nick Gonzales, who knows? He missed the end of his collegiate season and didn't have a real minor league season. But I haven't seen any assessment that he isn't a legit top ten pick. And both he and presumed number one pick Kumar Rocker are college draftees, so it's not not like we are talking about developing eighteen year olds. And the team believes that Oneil Cruz will be back with the team next year.



I'm not against signing free agents, but they should be supplemental, because we all know this franchise will not pony up for a free agent who can be the core of a winning team. I'd love it if the team signed JT Realmuto. But we all know that's not going to happen. I am far more excited about the talent we have than the talent we might be able to get.


______

Is that #3 and #8?


Your list of alibis and excuses are not alibis and excuses when they are true. Your 2nd item blames people for saying they shouldn't get players who are injury prone. Cervelli was known to be injury prone when the Pirates disregarded your advice and acquired him anyway. In 4 of his 5 years as a Pirate he missed large chunks of the season. Turns out he was injury prone. Who knew? No one is saying the Pirates shouldn't make moves. But if the Pirates followed your advice, they'd make a ton of disastrous moves.


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Since every player has probably experienced an injury at one time or another, then they are all injury prone.


So in order to justify criticizing fans for not wanting to acquire injury prone players, you say that there is no such thing because any injury at 1 time or another means the player is injury prone. Which means all players are injury prone. You ignore the definition of "injury prone" which is that when a player has a history of injuries he is a higher risk to become injured again.



Before the Pirates acquired Cervelli he had a history of injuries: 2 concussions in 2010, a broken foot in 2011, a fractured right hand with surgery in 2013 and both hamstring injury and migraines in 2014.



The Pirates obtained him despite his history of injuries. In 2016 he had a fractured hamate and a thumb injury. In 2017 and 2018 he had concussions. That's more than "an injury at one time or another." Despite his history of concussions, the Marlins signed him. He lasted for a month and then was disabled due to concussions. In his 5 years with the Pirates he was only able to stay healthy long enough to play 1 season as the full time catcher.



So your rule #2 is full of #2.

614C41505746511112230 wrote: BC needs to have a vision for when he thinks it is reasonable to make the team a contender. And then a series of moves needs to be made with that goal in mind. Years of control must be considered if a FA is signed or a player is obtained in a trade. Just randomly adding a player or 2 who will be gone in a year might satisfy some fans but won't be any better than doing nothing as far as making the team a contender is concerned. Players who can help need to have contract extensions and areas of need must be identified and addressed with players who will still be around in 2-3 years if that is the target. The minor leagues need to identify the prospects who can legitimately help and ascertain how many years away they are. All of these things have to be done in conjunction with one another if the team is to jell in the near future. Otherwise, it's just a different cast of characters kicking the can. 


I agree. And as one of the few optomists left on this board, I'm not sure that the time to supplement a home grown core with FAs to fill out the roster is that far away.



Hayes, looks like you can build a team around him. Taillon returns. Newman and Reynolds may not be .300 hitters like they were in 2019, but I think they also aren't low .200 hitters.



Nick Gonzales, who knows? He missed the end of his collegiate season and didn't have a real minor league season. But I haven't seen any assessment that he isn't a legit top ten pick. And both he and presumed number one pick Kumar Rocker are college draftees, so it's not not like we are talking about developing eighteen year olds. And the team believes that Oneil Cruz will be back with the team next year.



I'm not against signing free agents, but they should be supplemental, because we all know this franchise will not pony up for a free agent who can be the core of a winning team. I'd love it if the team signed JT Realmuto. But we all know that's not going to happen. I am far more excited about the talent we have than the talent we might be able to get.


______

Is that #3 and #8?


Your list of alibis and excuses are not alibis and excuses when they are true. Your 2nd item blames people for saying they shouldn't get players who are injury prone. Cervelli was known to be injury prone when the Pirates disregarded your advice and acquired him anyway. In 4 of his 5 years as a Pirate he missed large chunks of the season. Turns out he was injury prone. Who knew? No one is saying the Pirates shouldn't make moves. But if the Pirates followed your advice, they'd make a ton of disastrous moves.


______

Since every player has probably experienced an injury at one time or another, then they are all injury prone.


So in order to justify criticizing fans for not wanting to acquire injury prone players, you say that there is no such thing because any injury at 1 time or another means the player is injury prone. Which means all players are injury prone. You ignore the definition of "injury prone" which is that when a player has a history of injuries he is a higher risk to become injured again.



Before the Pirates acquired Cervelli he had a history of injuries: 2 concussions in 2010, a broken foot in 2011, a fractured right hand with surgery in 2013 and both hamstring injury and migraines in 2014.



The Pirates obtained him despite his history of injuries. In 2016 he had a fractured hamate and a thumb injury. In 2017 and 2018 he had concussions. That's more than "an injury at one time or another." Despite his history of concussions, the Marlins signed him. He lasted for a month and then was disabled due to concussions. In his 5 years with the Pirates he was only able to stay healthy long enough to play 1 season as the full time catcher.



So your rule #2 is full of #2.    




I'm afraid common sense and logic won't work on him, Bobster.