Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:53 pm
103D30212637206063520 wrote: Okay Shedman, I'll take the bait.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
______
If you set the bar low enough, even Cherington will be able to step over it.
The bar for Cherington is not set based on what he does not have the resources to do. The bar for Cherington is set based on what he is doing in the only realistic course of action available to him.
We like to have immediate results. So if BC has traded players and has little on the current MLB roster to show for it he must be a bum. But of course those trades were not made to enhance the current MLB roster. He acquired a number of prospects who are doing well in the organization and should be on course to significantly upgrade the MLB roster in the next year or 2. That's the bar for BC. If he has used his trading hips to acquire prospects who will be of little help, then BC will be a bum. If he succeeded in that goal, then the Pirates will be contenders and he will be a success. We just have to wait for the results and people don't like to wait. It's just easier for some to declare he's a failure right now because the success of what he is actually doing can't yet be known.
____________
Adam Duvall was there for the taking almost to the end of the Off Season. Duvall has 16 HR's and 52 RBI's. I know, I know, Nutting wouldn't give Cherington the $5 million that it took to sign Duvall. Instead we got a collection of suspects and the likes of Alford and Tom and the can kicked down the road to some vague undefined future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
______
If you set the bar low enough, even Cherington will be able to step over it.
The bar for Cherington is not set based on what he does not have the resources to do. The bar for Cherington is set based on what he is doing in the only realistic course of action available to him.
We like to have immediate results. So if BC has traded players and has little on the current MLB roster to show for it he must be a bum. But of course those trades were not made to enhance the current MLB roster. He acquired a number of prospects who are doing well in the organization and should be on course to significantly upgrade the MLB roster in the next year or 2. That's the bar for BC. If he has used his trading hips to acquire prospects who will be of little help, then BC will be a bum. If he succeeded in that goal, then the Pirates will be contenders and he will be a success. We just have to wait for the results and people don't like to wait. It's just easier for some to declare he's a failure right now because the success of what he is actually doing can't yet be known.
____________
Adam Duvall was there for the taking almost to the end of the Off Season. Duvall has 16 HR's and 52 RBI's. I know, I know, Nutting wouldn't give Cherington the $5 million that it took to sign Duvall. Instead we got a collection of suspects and the likes of Alford and Tom and the can kicked down the road to some vague undefined future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh.