Official Game Thread - Bucs vs Reds 9/3

[GreenWeenie]

013F3A32213939321237203364560 wrote: Nice sentiments, Surge.  For me, there’s nothing like going to a major league baseball game.  It’s way better than any other sport.
It's really hard to believe- not one sweep


Take another hard look at that roster. 



The much more difficult thing for me to believe is some of the teams that swept us.



Regardless of what many of you say or think, it clearly did not have to be this way.

[Bobster21]

1F2A3D3D360F3D3D36313D580 wrote: Nice sentiments, Surge.  For me, there’s nothing like going to a major league baseball game.  It’s way better than any other sport.
It's really hard to believe- not one sweep


Take another hard look at that roster. 



The much more difficult thing for me to believe is some of the teams that swept us.



Regardless of what many of you say or think, it clearly did not have to be this way.


I know it sounds like just ragging on Shelton but there were so many times they needed to win one more game to sweep and I couldn't believe the lineup. Key player(s) resting, struggling players playing, effective starters pulled after 5 innings for struggling relievers. I don't know what discussions Shelton and Cherington had but winning usually did not seem like a priority. I don't know if Shelton is as bad a manager as he appears to be or if there was a larger issue at play such as a balance of looking at various players regardless of performance or resting players regardless of the situation to reduce the chances of injury in a meaningless season. I would like to think we haven't seen the best of Shelton and that he would make better decisions if there was reason to prioritize winning. But if what we see is what we get, then a more talented Pirate team would likely underachieve under his leadership. I don't think Cherington is a fool so I have to believe he is either satisfied that Shelton ran the team the way Cherington wanted or that Shelton needs to be replaced before the team has the talent to compete.

[GreenWeenie]

There is not one particle of anything out there that makes me think that Derek Shelton, an OJT manager, is NOT receiving certain directives by his superiors, either directly or indirectly.



He is NOT making many decisions unilaterally.



It's the organization, Bob.  It has to be.

[Bobster21]

1124333338013333383F33560 wrote: There is not one particle of anything out there that makes me think that Derek Shelton, an OTJ manager, is NOT receiving certain directives by his superiors, either directly or indirectly.



He is NOT making many decisions unilaterally.



It's the organization, Bob.  It has to be.
I don't disagree. We just don't know how much is organizational directives and how much is Shelton making poor decisions. In many ways games were managed in a way that would seem appropriate for the Grapefruit League. Shelton didn't seem to prioritize winning so he must have thought that what he was doing was acceptable to his boss.

[GreenWeenie]

That's not meant to be taken as any apology for Shelton, just to be clear on that.  I'm as unimpressed by him as anyone else with a few exceptions, like Reynolds, for example.

[GreenWeenie]

795459484F5E49090A3B0 wrote: There is not one particle of anything out there that makes me think that Derek Shelton, an OTJ manager, is NOT receiving certain directives by his superiors, either directly or indirectly.



He is NOT making many decisions unilaterally.



It's the organization, Bob.  It has to be.
I don't disagree. We just don't know how much is organizational directives and how much is Shelton making poor decisions. In many ways games were managed in a way that would seem appropriate for the Grapefruit League. Shelton didn't seem to prioritize winning so he must have thought that what he was doing was acceptable to his boss.


Hell's bells, who HAS prioritized winning?  We didn't even SEEM to.  All we cared about was the draft.  At least we did well on that.  It was as if no one cared about the season.



Maybe Shed and I, but we don't count. 

[UtahPirate]

6C414C5D5A4B5C1C1F2E0 wrote: Nice sentiments, Surge.  For me, there’s nothing like going to a major league baseball game.  It’s way better than any other sport.
It's really hard to believe- not one sweep


Take another hard look at that roster. 



The much more difficult thing for me to believe is some of the teams that swept us.



Regardless of what many of you say or think, it clearly did not have to be this way.


I know it sounds like just ragging on Shelton but there were so many times they needed to win one more game to sweep and I couldn't believe the lineup. Key player(s) resting, struggling players playing, effective starters pulled after 5 innings for struggling relievers. I don't know what discussions Shelton and Cherington had but winning usually did not seem like a priority. I don't know if Shelton is as bad a manager as he appears to be or if there was a larger issue at play such as a balance of looking at various players regardless of performance or resting players regardless of the situation to reduce the chances of injury in a meaningless season. I would like to think we haven't seen the best of Shelton and that he would make better decisions if there was reason to prioritize winning. But if what we see is what we get, then a more talented Pirate team would likely underachieve under his leadership. I don't think Cherington is a fool so I have to believe he is either satisfied that Shelton ran the team the way Cherington wanted or that Shelton needs to be replaced before the team has the talent to compete. 


#4 pick in next year's draft.



This was a try-out team. While the lineups could be head scratchers the pitching decisions were more questionable. For example, why Ponce today? He's already clearly shown he's not an MLB pitcher and as Surgnbuck said, he had a full bullpen.



It was just a try-out team to help make 40-man decisions and see if anything was worth hanging on to. I've never liked teams that take a dive for a draft position, no matter what sport. Honestly, the team played hard over the last month and a half and won their share of games. But I'm left with a feeling that our GM just took a dive.



If I don't see some effort to put at least a fair MLB team on the field next year to create a bridge to all these prospects I'll ...... I'll ..... I guess I'll buy an MiLB season pass instead of an MLB one. But BC's "build" - which is a rebuild to anyone as you rebuild when you tear things down - is really starting to wear on me. It's time we at least try instead of try-out on the MLB level.

[UtahPirate]

457067676C5567676C6B67020 wrote: There is not one particle of anything out there that makes me think that Derek Shelton, an OTJ manager, is NOT receiving certain directives by his superiors, either directly or indirectly.



He is NOT making many decisions unilaterally.



It's the organization, Bob.  It has to be.
I don't disagree. We just don't know how much is organizational directives and how much is Shelton making poor decisions. In many ways games were managed in a way that would seem appropriate for the Grapefruit League. Shelton didn't seem to prioritize winning so he must have thought that what he was doing was acceptable to his boss.


Hell's bells, who HAS prioritized winning?  We didn't even SEEM to.  All we cared about was the draft.  At least we did well on that.  It was as if no one cared about the season.



Maybe Shed, UtahPirate (just so you know) and I, but we don't count. 

[rucker59@gmail.com]

496F687D74786F79711A0 wrote: It's always so bittersweet going to the last home game of the year. The final song they play, and when all the music and announcements are done, being politely asked to go home.



I'm thankful we finally were allowed to attend games. The best part about going to a game is, no matter how good or how bad your team is, that game that day or night, is a season unto itself. All the other games that are in the books, and the ones remaining on the schedule, are immaterial. They have no bearing on today. Neither do the standings. Neither do all the what if's and shoulda woulda couldas. Yesterday's star or goat, can be the opposite one tonight.



Tonight's starter with that 6 plus ERA, has a completely clean slate at the start of the game. It could be the greatest night of their career, and you get to share in it. That player who you find out was demoted or released the next day, might have had his finest moment in uniform, and you were there to share it.



You might see something you've never seen before, and maybe never will again. You get to let yourself be absorbed into the game, you get to feel the sun, you get feel the night chill in a way you just don't get watching the game on television, or listening on the radio. 



Some games the crowd is really into the game, and the atmosphere is electric. Some games, it seems almost funerial. But it's always a unique experience each and every time you go.



You don't get to choose who the players are, who will be the coaches, the management team, nor the ownership. You only get to choose the team you want to devote your heart.



We don't win the games. We don't lose the games. But somehow, we're part of the games.



And that's why I keep going.



Here's to 2022.



Let's Go Bucs!!!!


What a great post!

At its best, Baseball is a beautiful game.  This homestand was beautiful. 



My son came in from college for the weekend. The little boy has turned into a man. A good man. I realized that we are in transition- soon enough I will be that old man and J will be caring for me - we will go to games in the years ahead, for the same reasons we’ve gone all these years: love of the game, love for the Pirates, more and more shared memories, dreams for “next season”, love for each other. 



The little boy who cherished singing “take me out to the ball game” as we put our arms around each other, game after game after game, is now the man who still hurried back from concessions to cherish one more sing along, arms around each other again.  It was sweet, not childish, sweet like something inherently good, sweet like the game itself.



All the cynicism disappeared watching Cole Tucker play like a kid - not just cynicism for the Pirates, but at a baseball game, for a few moments people all around me simply cheered for the Pirates, loved their family, had fun with friends, were kind to each other, stood as one when something extraordinary happened, endured together when the other team scored - the ugly scar of our divided nation, hatred that exists for no good reason, it all disappeared. 



To borrow a biblical prospective, at a baseball game things work. No matter how bad your team is, if the infielder fields the ball and makes an accurate throw to 1st, the runner will be out by a second or less, unless the runner is safe by a second or less.  A pitcher will throw a ball that will somehow “break” right over the plate, not 10 feet in front, but right over that little plate.  Three outfielders are just perfect to ALMOST cover the vast grass of the outfield but not quite - somehow a batter can still hit a round ball with a round bat and find those gaps were miracles happen.  It’s all so perfectly designed.  Like God laid out the first Field of Dreams, in the Garden, so many summers ago.



And in the stands there is neither Greek nor Jew, not black nor white, no republicans or Democrats, just people watching a game, watching their kids grow up, watching their mom or dad grow old, watching when Cole Tucker or Oneil Cruz or Mitch Keller or Joey Votto adds to the memories. 



Our son headed back to college after yesterday’s game.  One more hug, one more time to tell him how much I love him, one more time to see how much I’m loved - one more “next season” to dream about. 



Now, early the next day, It’s still a beautiful game. 



Surgenbuck - I love your post.  Thank you.  I hope my thoughts add to yours. 

[Surgnbuck]

3A3D2B232D3A7D71082F25292124662B2725480 wrote:

What a great post!

At its best, Baseball is a beautiful game.  This homestand was beautiful. 



My son came in from college for the weekend. The little boy has turned into a man. A good man. I realized that we are in transition- soon enough I will be that old man and J will be caring for me - we will go to games in the years ahead, for the same reasons we’ve gone all these years: love of the game, love for the Pirates, more and more shared memories, dreams for “next season”, love for each other. 



The little boy who cherished singing “take me out to the ball game” as we put our arms around each other, game after game after game, is now the man who still hurried back from concessions to cherish one more sing along, arms around each other again.  It was sweet, not childish, sweet like something inherently good, sweet like the game itself.



All the cynicism disappeared watching Cole Tucker play like a kid - not just cynicism for the Pirates, but at a baseball game, for a few moments people all around me simply cheered for the Pirates, loved their family, had fun with friends, were kind to each other, stood as one when something extraordinary happened, endured together when the other team scored - the ugly scar of our divided nation, hatred that exists for no good reason, it all disappeared. 



To borrow a biblical prospective, at a baseball game things work. No matter how bad your team is, if the infielder fields the ball and makes an accurate throw to 1st, the runner will be out by a second or less, unless the runner is safe by a second or less.  A pitcher will throw a ball that will somehow “break” right over the plate, not 10 feet in front, but right over that little plate.  Three outfielders are just perfect to ALMOST cover the vast grass of the outfield but not quite - somehow a batter can still hit a round ball with a round bat and find those gaps were miracles happen.  It’s all so perfectly designed.  Like God laid out the first Field of Dreams, in the Garden, so many summers ago.



And in the stands there is neither Greek nor Jew, not black nor white, no republicans or Democrats, just people watching a game, watching their kids grow up, watching their mom or dad grow old, watching when Cole Tucker or Oneil Cruz or Mitch Keller or Joey Votto adds to the memories. 



Our son headed back to college after yesterday’s game.  One more hug, one more time to tell him how much I love him, one more time to see how much I’m loved - one more “next season” to dream about. 



Now, early the next day, It’s still a beautiful game. 



Surgenbuck - I love your post.  Thank you.  I hope my thoughts  add to yours. 






What a wonderful post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with all of us.