6E49585C59447B4F585959443D0 wrote: I love how just so many Pirates fans all over not so much on here and a lot of the people in the media automatically just start agreeing and believing what Huntington says after he came out the other day and tried to spin the whole entire story. It's quite amusing.
Not sure what you are talking about. I haven't heard anyone spinning the trade. NH said it was a salary dump and they wanted Hutchison. I feel like that's what I've read here ad nauseam. What am I missing?
Last Minute Trade Buzz
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Last Minute Trade Buzz
534E6A6866030 wrote: I love how just so many Pirates fans all over not so much on here and a lot of the people in the media automatically just start agreeing and believing what Huntington says after he came out the other day and tried to spin the whole entire story. It's quite amusing.
Not sure what you are talking about. I haven't heard anyone spinning the trade. NH said it was a salary dump and they wanted Hutchison. I feel like that's what I've read here ad nauseam. What am I missing?
If you don't totally agree that our management did something vile and should be dismissed immediately then you are "spinning."
Not sure what you are talking about. I haven't heard anyone spinning the trade. NH said it was a salary dump and they wanted Hutchison. I feel like that's what I've read here ad nauseam. What am I missing?
If you don't totally agree that our management did something vile and should be dismissed immediately then you are "spinning."
-
SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
607D595B55300 wrote: I love how just so many Pirates fans all over not so much on here and a lot of the people in the media automatically just start agreeing and believing what Huntington says after he came out the other day and tried to spin the whole entire story. It's quite amusing.
Not sure what you are talking about. I haven't heard anyone spinning the trade. NH said it was a salary dump and they wanted Hutchison. I feel like that's what I've read here ad nauseam. What am I missing? Huntington didn't say it was a salary dump. He said that they really wanted Hutchison and took 2 of their top 10 prospects plus Liriano to get it done. He stated a lot of people want to make it look like and jump to the conclusions before the facts came out that we did it just to dump Liriano's salary and that wasn't the case. He was quoted as saying that on his radio show with Greg Brown on Sunday. So long story short he wanted Pirates fans to believe first that they got Hutchison for McGuire and Ramirez and basically threw Liriano in there. And listening to the talk shows yesterday and reading a lot of stuff Pirates fans seemed to buy it hook, line and sinker.
Not sure what you are talking about. I haven't heard anyone spinning the trade. NH said it was a salary dump and they wanted Hutchison. I feel like that's what I've read here ad nauseam. What am I missing? Huntington didn't say it was a salary dump. He said that they really wanted Hutchison and took 2 of their top 10 prospects plus Liriano to get it done. He stated a lot of people want to make it look like and jump to the conclusions before the facts came out that we did it just to dump Liriano's salary and that wasn't the case. He was quoted as saying that on his radio show with Greg Brown on Sunday. So long story short he wanted Pirates fans to believe first that they got Hutchison for McGuire and Ramirez and basically threw Liriano in there. And listening to the talk shows yesterday and reading a lot of stuff Pirates fans seemed to buy it hook, line and sinker.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Last Minute Trade Buzz
It doesn't matter what he said. If Huntington came out and said it was a salary dump, people would be all over him. Now, that he said Hutchison was the wanted player, people don't believe him and said it was a salary dump.
So, does it really matter? People laughed at my comment. Huntington repeated my comment. People still laughed. There will always be ownership bashers no matter what. Even after three years of playoff runs and this ownership not having much to do with the 20 losing seasons.
In conclusion, we don't know the results. If Liriano stinks again next year, Huntington was right. If Hutchison stinks and McGuire and Ramirez make big splashes, Huntington was wrong. But it will take years to know for sure.
So, does it really matter? People laughed at my comment. Huntington repeated my comment. People still laughed. There will always be ownership bashers no matter what. Even after three years of playoff runs and this ownership not having much to do with the 20 losing seasons.
In conclusion, we don't know the results. If Liriano stinks again next year, Huntington was right. If Hutchison stinks and McGuire and Ramirez make big splashes, Huntington was wrong. But it will take years to know for sure.
-
JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Last Minute Trade Buzz
343F373B3E3F246167102931383F3F7E333F500 wrote: It doesn't matter what he said. If Huntington came out and said it was a salary dump, people would be all over him. Now, that he said Hutchison was the wanted player, people don't believe him and said it was a salary dump.
So, does it really matter? People laughed at my comment. Huntington repeated my comment. People still laughed. There will always be ownership bashers no matter what. Even after three years of playoff runs and this ownership not having much to do with the 20 losing seasons.
In conclusion, we don't know the results. If Liriano stinks again next year, Huntington was right. If Hutchison stinks and McGuire and Ramirez make big splashes, Huntington was wrong. But it will take years to know for sure.
This ownership group is very much accountable for many of those losing seasons. The Pirates are still in the bottom 5 of player payroll yet they are in the middle in terms of revenue. Not to mention that in Nuttings ownership the franchise value has skyrocketed from 96M to over 600M. So tired of the talking heads that continue to kiss Nuttings hind quarters. Bottom line is that Nutting does not give NH the adequate budget at a time that he promised he would.
So, does it really matter? People laughed at my comment. Huntington repeated my comment. People still laughed. There will always be ownership bashers no matter what. Even after three years of playoff runs and this ownership not having much to do with the 20 losing seasons.
In conclusion, we don't know the results. If Liriano stinks again next year, Huntington was right. If Hutchison stinks and McGuire and Ramirez make big splashes, Huntington was wrong. But it will take years to know for sure.
This ownership group is very much accountable for many of those losing seasons. The Pirates are still in the bottom 5 of player payroll yet they are in the middle in terms of revenue. Not to mention that in Nuttings ownership the franchise value has skyrocketed from 96M to over 600M. So tired of the talking heads that continue to kiss Nuttings hind quarters. Bottom line is that Nutting does not give NH the adequate budget at a time that he promised he would.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Last Minute Trade Buzz
Bottom five and they are winning.
To me that means other teams are over paying for their players as they have higher payrolls and lose. But some still bash the Pirates ownership for operating cheap, not operating smart.
To me that means other teams are over paying for their players as they have higher payrolls and lose. But some still bash the Pirates ownership for operating cheap, not operating smart.
-
SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
4B40484441405B1E186F564E474040014C402F0 wrote: Bottom five and they are winning.
To me that means other teams are over paying for their players as they have higher payrolls and lose. But some still bash the Pirates ownership for operating cheap, not operating smart.
Your definition of winning and other people's definition is a lot different. Yes they have been "winning" and have had success. And yes this is much better then 1993-2012 where they lost for over 20 years and were barely watchable. But that step is now over and done with and fans here want more and shouldn't have to settle for less and be happy just because the team lost for over 20 straight seasons. The Pirates still haven't won in the postseason in the last 3 years when it really matters and taken that next step and won a playoff series or gotten to the NLCS. Look at what the Royals did last year adding a guy like Cueto who was a little bit out there price range but they still did it in order to help get the Royals to the World Series. Signing guys like Polanco, Marte, Cervelli to long term deals is nice and Ill give Nutting some credit for that, but you have to add too it at some point and not just give a guy like Locke 3 million here, a guy like Jaso 4 million there. That isn't really adding payroll that is treading water.
To me that means other teams are over paying for their players as they have higher payrolls and lose. But some still bash the Pirates ownership for operating cheap, not operating smart.
Your definition of winning and other people's definition is a lot different. Yes they have been "winning" and have had success. And yes this is much better then 1993-2012 where they lost for over 20 years and were barely watchable. But that step is now over and done with and fans here want more and shouldn't have to settle for less and be happy just because the team lost for over 20 straight seasons. The Pirates still haven't won in the postseason in the last 3 years when it really matters and taken that next step and won a playoff series or gotten to the NLCS. Look at what the Royals did last year adding a guy like Cueto who was a little bit out there price range but they still did it in order to help get the Royals to the World Series. Signing guys like Polanco, Marte, Cervelli to long term deals is nice and Ill give Nutting some credit for that, but you have to add too it at some point and not just give a guy like Locke 3 million here, a guy like Jaso 4 million there. That isn't really adding payroll that is treading water.
-
SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
113437372209343C3E295B0 wrote: It doesn't matter what he said. If Huntington came out and said it was a salary dump, people would be all over him. Now, that he said Hutchison was the wanted player, people don't believe him and said it was a salary dump.
So, does it really matter? People laughed at my comment. Huntington repeated my comment. People still laughed. There will always be ownership bashers no matter what. Even after three years of playoff runs and this ownership not having much to do with the 20 losing seasons.
In conclusion, we don't know the results. If Liriano stinks again next year, Huntington was right. If Hutchison stinks and McGuire and Ramirez make big splashes, Huntington was wrong. But it will take years to know for sure.
This ownership group is very much accountable for many of those losing seasons. The Pirates are still in the bottom 5 of player payroll yet they are in the middle in terms of revenue. Not to mention that in Nuttings ownership the franchise value has skyrocketed from 96M to over 600M. So tired of the talking heads that continue to kiss Nuttings hind quarters. Bottom line is that Nutting does not give NH the adequate budget at a time that he promised he would.
I agree with this 100 percent. And as long as the Pirates payroll is 95-100 million and Nutting doesn't add to it and get it at least up another 20-25 to 115-120 million which he can surely do the Pirates are going to have a hard time winning a World Series. I'm glad they have signed their own guys and locked up guys like Marte and Polanco. They were both smart deals buying out free agent years. But at some point as I said above you have to add to it and Nutting wont do it.
So, does it really matter? People laughed at my comment. Huntington repeated my comment. People still laughed. There will always be ownership bashers no matter what. Even after three years of playoff runs and this ownership not having much to do with the 20 losing seasons.
In conclusion, we don't know the results. If Liriano stinks again next year, Huntington was right. If Hutchison stinks and McGuire and Ramirez make big splashes, Huntington was wrong. But it will take years to know for sure.
This ownership group is very much accountable for many of those losing seasons. The Pirates are still in the bottom 5 of player payroll yet they are in the middle in terms of revenue. Not to mention that in Nuttings ownership the franchise value has skyrocketed from 96M to over 600M. So tired of the talking heads that continue to kiss Nuttings hind quarters. Bottom line is that Nutting does not give NH the adequate budget at a time that he promised he would.
I agree with this 100 percent. And as long as the Pirates payroll is 95-100 million and Nutting doesn't add to it and get it at least up another 20-25 to 115-120 million which he can surely do the Pirates are going to have a hard time winning a World Series. I'm glad they have signed their own guys and locked up guys like Marte and Polanco. They were both smart deals buying out free agent years. But at some point as I said above you have to add to it and Nutting wont do it.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Last Minute Trade Buzz
Spending just to spend is a bad idea. Too many teams do that and lose. You would rather be the Yankees right now with their payroll? At least they spent money.
We have been over this. The Yankees have a payroll over $218 million and have the same record (close) as the Pirates. The Phillies, Padres, and Angels are in the top 10 in payrolls.
But you would rather be one of those teams, right? The Pirates aren't being cheap, they are being smart.
Many thought Jaso would be better than Alvarez. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker. Many were wrong too. They didn't pan out (yet), but doesn't mean they were being cheap.
I know they haven't won anything, but you are well aware anyone can win it if they make the Playoffs. Wild cards have made the World Series and won the World Series too.
Smart spending is better than just spending. There is so much proof of this yet people still don't see it. Like the examples don't matter when this is pointed out again and again.
And Freddy, you want Bell to replace Jaso. That will make the payroll even less (less) on the field yet that is your big move right now. You also wanted to bench McCutchen. The starting line up would take a big hit money wise if McCutchen was replaced by Joyce or Bell.
We have been over this. The Yankees have a payroll over $218 million and have the same record (close) as the Pirates. The Phillies, Padres, and Angels are in the top 10 in payrolls.
But you would rather be one of those teams, right? The Pirates aren't being cheap, they are being smart.
Many thought Jaso would be better than Alvarez. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker. Many were wrong too. They didn't pan out (yet), but doesn't mean they were being cheap.
I know they haven't won anything, but you are well aware anyone can win it if they make the Playoffs. Wild cards have made the World Series and won the World Series too.
Smart spending is better than just spending. There is so much proof of this yet people still don't see it. Like the examples don't matter when this is pointed out again and again.
And Freddy, you want Bell to replace Jaso. That will make the payroll even less (less) on the field yet that is your big move right now. You also wanted to bench McCutchen. The starting line up would take a big hit money wise if McCutchen was replaced by Joyce or Bell.
-
SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
69626A666362793C3A4D746C656262236E620D0 wrote: Spending just to spend is a bad idea. Too many teams do that and lose. You would rather be the Yankees right now with their payroll? At least they spent money.
We have been over this. The Yankees have a payroll over $218 million and have the same record (close) as the Pirates. The Phillies, Padres, and Angels are in the top 10 in payrolls.
But you would rather be one of those teams, right? The Pirates aren't being cheap, they are being smart.
Many thought Jaso would be better than Alvarez. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker. Many were wrong too. They didn't pan out (yet), but doesn't mean they were being cheap.
I know they haven't won anything, but you are well aware anyone can win it if they make the Playoffs. Wild cards have made the World Series and won the World Series too.
Smart spending is better than just spending. There is so much proof of this yet people still don't see it. Like the examples don't matter when this is pointed out again and again.
And Freddy, you want Bell to replace Jaso. That will make the payroll even less (less) on the field yet that is your big move right now. You also wanted to bench McCutchen. The starting line up would take a big hit money wise if McCutchen was replaced by Joyce or Bell. I'm not talking about spending like the Yankees or Dodgers I have never said I wanted a 200 or 300 million dollar payroll. I know that is unrealistic. I would be happy if the Pirates would have raised their payroll to 120-125 million as I pointed out and re-signed a guy like JA Happ. Using Jaso as an example of taking off payroll is a very poor one because he isn't worth 4 dollars lately let alone 4 million. Getting him out of the lineup is addition by subtraction. Like I stated I'm glad they resigned guys like Polanco, Marte, and Cervelli they bought out free agent years and they were good signings. But at some point you have to add on top of that and do more. And I'm not talking about spending like the Yankees rather adding another 30 million or so to a pretty good team like the Pirates could make them great.
We have been over this. The Yankees have a payroll over $218 million and have the same record (close) as the Pirates. The Phillies, Padres, and Angels are in the top 10 in payrolls.
But you would rather be one of those teams, right? The Pirates aren't being cheap, they are being smart.
Many thought Jaso would be better than Alvarez. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker. Many were wrong too. They didn't pan out (yet), but doesn't mean they were being cheap.
I know they haven't won anything, but you are well aware anyone can win it if they make the Playoffs. Wild cards have made the World Series and won the World Series too.
Smart spending is better than just spending. There is so much proof of this yet people still don't see it. Like the examples don't matter when this is pointed out again and again.
And Freddy, you want Bell to replace Jaso. That will make the payroll even less (less) on the field yet that is your big move right now. You also wanted to bench McCutchen. The starting line up would take a big hit money wise if McCutchen was replaced by Joyce or Bell. I'm not talking about spending like the Yankees or Dodgers I have never said I wanted a 200 or 300 million dollar payroll. I know that is unrealistic. I would be happy if the Pirates would have raised their payroll to 120-125 million as I pointed out and re-signed a guy like JA Happ. Using Jaso as an example of taking off payroll is a very poor one because he isn't worth 4 dollars lately let alone 4 million. Getting him out of the lineup is addition by subtraction. Like I stated I'm glad they resigned guys like Polanco, Marte, and Cervelli they bought out free agent years and they were good signings. But at some point you have to add on top of that and do more. And I'm not talking about spending like the Yankees rather adding another 30 million or so to a pretty good team like the Pirates could make them great.