Last Minute Trade Buzz
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Last Minute Trade Buzz
Hutchison is a better return than David Whitehead. Morton was also $5 million cheaper than Liriano. The two do not really compare.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Last Minute Trade Buzz
6D666E6267667D383E497068616666276A66090 wrote: Hutchison is a better return than David Whitehead. Morton was also $5 million cheaper than Liriano. The two do not really compare.
Well I have to imagine Liriano has much more value than Morton, and I can see no reason whatsoever why someone wouldn't want to roll the dice on buying low on him. There have been contracts much worse than Liriano's that have been given away for nothing over the years without the team dropping the player needing to give up prospects to do so.
I still don't like the deal, just not for the same reasons people peddling the salary dump explanation seem to be offering.
Well I have to imagine Liriano has much more value than Morton, and I can see no reason whatsoever why someone wouldn't want to roll the dice on buying low on him. There have been contracts much worse than Liriano's that have been given away for nothing over the years without the team dropping the player needing to give up prospects to do so.
I still don't like the deal, just not for the same reasons people peddling the salary dump explanation seem to be offering.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Last Minute Trade Buzz
I've was out of town till Saturday, now that I'm back one thing is certain: this town is really angry over this deal. The FAN is as angry as I can recall and pretty much mocking Neal for his explanation.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated.
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
212630383621666A13343E323A3F7D303C3E530 wrote: I've was out of town till Saturday, now that I'm back one thing is certain: this town is really angry over this deal. The FAN is as angry as I can recall and pretty much mocking Neal for his explanation.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated. I was there Saturday too and I noticed the same thing VA. They have only sold out I think 4 or 5 times not counting opening day this year which is way way down from the last couple of seasons at this time. You got Huntington going on his radio show yesterday seemingly blaming the media and the fans for jumping to conclusions real early about what the Liriano deal actually meant before waiting to hear from the organization. A statement like this makes it seem like the fans here of the Pirates are idiots and cant make up their minds about what is really going on. I listen to his radio every Sunday and the last few weeks have really bothered me. It just seems like all Huntington is trying to do on there when he is asked a tough question is spin the answer and it just sounds like he is lying more and more.
If they think the attendance isn't good now if this team is out of the race come early September the crowds are really going to start to suffer especially during the weekday night games. A lot of fans who are loyal season ticket holders or partial season ticket holders like myself are very frustrated and annoyed about what has gone on this season with this team. Coming off a 98 win season last year we should be talking right now about a team getting ready to maybe win a division and make a run at a World Series, and instead we are talking about things like dumping salary to save money, trading away some of our top pitchers, and barely playing .500 baseball to stay in the wildcard race. Long story short people are pissed off about this season and they are letting it be known more and more as they should.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated. I was there Saturday too and I noticed the same thing VA. They have only sold out I think 4 or 5 times not counting opening day this year which is way way down from the last couple of seasons at this time. You got Huntington going on his radio show yesterday seemingly blaming the media and the fans for jumping to conclusions real early about what the Liriano deal actually meant before waiting to hear from the organization. A statement like this makes it seem like the fans here of the Pirates are idiots and cant make up their minds about what is really going on. I listen to his radio every Sunday and the last few weeks have really bothered me. It just seems like all Huntington is trying to do on there when he is asked a tough question is spin the answer and it just sounds like he is lying more and more.
If they think the attendance isn't good now if this team is out of the race come early September the crowds are really going to start to suffer especially during the weekday night games. A lot of fans who are loyal season ticket holders or partial season ticket holders like myself are very frustrated and annoyed about what has gone on this season with this team. Coming off a 98 win season last year we should be talking right now about a team getting ready to maybe win a division and make a run at a World Series, and instead we are talking about things like dumping salary to save money, trading away some of our top pitchers, and barely playing .500 baseball to stay in the wildcard race. Long story short people are pissed off about this season and they are letting it be known more and more as they should.
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Bobster21
Last Minute Trade Buzz
202731393720676B12353F333B3E7C313D3F520 wrote: I've was out of town till Saturday, now that I'm back one thing is certain: this town is really angry over this deal. The FAN is as angry as I can recall and pretty much mocking Neal for his explanation.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated.
Few seem to be buying NH's explanation that this was a fair trade to get Hutchison instead of a salary dump. The organization is proud of how good their minor league system is. So the top 10 prospects in such a system must be pretty valuable assets. Nothing about Hutchison suggests he is worth that price. On the other hand, the Pirates have a history of maintaining low payrolls. This deal further reduced the payroll by ditching an unproductive pitcher. I find it an insult to the intelligence of the fans to suggest the surrender of such highly ranked prospects for Hutchison was not directly related to Toronto's agreement to pay Liriano's remaining salary. Furthermore, Pirate fans are pretty savvy about prospects. We've been geared to think that way because of the organization's strategy of building from within and their reluctance to acquire high producing, high salaried players from other teams. So when we see a team well-known for their "thriftiness" sending away top prospects in a deal that sheds salary without obtaining a highly regarded player in return, it seems that avoiding salary is more important than developing talent from within.
Regarding Cole, I find it intertesting that he came into his own last year (19-8, 4th in CY voting) on a strong pitching staff. Liriano had a good season and Burnett/Happ combined to give them another quality starter in the rotation. Also, the bullpen had a fine 2015. This year, Cole was the only quality starter and the bullpen was bad too. I wonder if Cole messed himself up this year by putting a lot of pressure on himself to be their stud pitcher.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated.
Few seem to be buying NH's explanation that this was a fair trade to get Hutchison instead of a salary dump. The organization is proud of how good their minor league system is. So the top 10 prospects in such a system must be pretty valuable assets. Nothing about Hutchison suggests he is worth that price. On the other hand, the Pirates have a history of maintaining low payrolls. This deal further reduced the payroll by ditching an unproductive pitcher. I find it an insult to the intelligence of the fans to suggest the surrender of such highly ranked prospects for Hutchison was not directly related to Toronto's agreement to pay Liriano's remaining salary. Furthermore, Pirate fans are pretty savvy about prospects. We've been geared to think that way because of the organization's strategy of building from within and their reluctance to acquire high producing, high salaried players from other teams. So when we see a team well-known for their "thriftiness" sending away top prospects in a deal that sheds salary without obtaining a highly regarded player in return, it seems that avoiding salary is more important than developing talent from within.
Regarding Cole, I find it intertesting that he came into his own last year (19-8, 4th in CY voting) on a strong pitching staff. Liriano had a good season and Burnett/Happ combined to give them another quality starter in the rotation. Also, the bullpen had a fine 2015. This year, Cole was the only quality starter and the bullpen was bad too. I wonder if Cole messed himself up this year by putting a lot of pressure on himself to be their stud pitcher.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Last Minute Trade Buzz
1C313C2D2A3B2C6C6F5E0 wrote: I've was out of town till Saturday, now that I'm back one thing is certain: this town is really angry over this deal. The FAN is as angry as I can recall and pretty much mocking Neal for his explanation.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated.
Few seem to be buying NH's explanation that this was a fair trade to get Hutchison instead of a salary dump. The organization is proud of how good their minor league system is. So the top 10 prospects in such a system must be pretty valuable assets. Nothing about Hutchison suggests he is worth that price. On the other hand, the Pirates have a history of maintaining low payrolls. This deal further reduced the payroll by ditching an unproductive pitcher. I find it an insult to the intelligence of the fans to suggest the surrender of such highly ranked prospects for Hutchison was not directly related to Toronto's agreement to pay Liriano's remaining salary. Furthermore, Pirate fans are pretty savvy about prospects. We've been geared to think that way because of the organization's strategy of building from within and their reluctance to acquire high producing, high salaried players from other teams. So when we see a team well-known for their "thriftiness" sending away top prospects in a deal that sheds salary without obtaining a highly regarded player in return, it seems that avoiding salary is more important than developing talent from within.
Regarding Cole, I find it intertesting that he came into his own last year (19-8, 4th in CY voting) on a strong pitching staff. Liriano had a good season and Burnett/Happ combined to give them another quality starter in the rotation. Also, the bullpen had a fine 2015. This year, Cole was the only quality starter and the bullpen was bad too. I wonder if Cole messed himself up this year by putting a lot of pressure on himself to be their stud pitcher.
Still not fully buying it. They could have done a "salary dump" without giving prospects, and there is an overwhelming history of examples showing this.
I heard over and over the frustration with "salary flexibility".
I was at the games on Saturday and Sunday - those were the smallest Sat and Sun mid-summer crowds that I've seen probably in 4 or 5 years. Perfect weather. A number of fans from Cincinnati. I also heard more "boos" than I've heard in a long time I don't know what the attendance is this year compared to last year, but I'm sure it's down somewhat - I wonder if the FO understand perception of concern for the fan means something.
Finally, now the FAN is talking about Cole - that he's not the stud everyone anticipated.
Few seem to be buying NH's explanation that this was a fair trade to get Hutchison instead of a salary dump. The organization is proud of how good their minor league system is. So the top 10 prospects in such a system must be pretty valuable assets. Nothing about Hutchison suggests he is worth that price. On the other hand, the Pirates have a history of maintaining low payrolls. This deal further reduced the payroll by ditching an unproductive pitcher. I find it an insult to the intelligence of the fans to suggest the surrender of such highly ranked prospects for Hutchison was not directly related to Toronto's agreement to pay Liriano's remaining salary. Furthermore, Pirate fans are pretty savvy about prospects. We've been geared to think that way because of the organization's strategy of building from within and their reluctance to acquire high producing, high salaried players from other teams. So when we see a team well-known for their "thriftiness" sending away top prospects in a deal that sheds salary without obtaining a highly regarded player in return, it seems that avoiding salary is more important than developing talent from within.
Regarding Cole, I find it intertesting that he came into his own last year (19-8, 4th in CY voting) on a strong pitching staff. Liriano had a good season and Burnett/Happ combined to give them another quality starter in the rotation. Also, the bullpen had a fine 2015. This year, Cole was the only quality starter and the bullpen was bad too. I wonder if Cole messed himself up this year by putting a lot of pressure on himself to be their stud pitcher.
Still not fully buying it. They could have done a "salary dump" without giving prospects, and there is an overwhelming history of examples showing this.
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Bobster21
Last Minute Trade Buzz
13212D2D390B28212C292621400 wrote:
Still not fully buying it. They could have done a "salary dump" without giving prospects, and there is an overwhelming history of examples showing this.
When have they dumped as much salary as Liriano's remaining approx 17 million?
Still not fully buying it. They could have done a "salary dump" without giving prospects, and there is an overwhelming history of examples showing this.
When have they dumped as much salary as Liriano's remaining approx 17 million?
Last Minute Trade Buzz
The idea that a nobody like Hutchison would cost 2 Top 100 prospects is patently absurd. Please. NH is going to say what he feels like he has to say to save face for buying salary relief with projectable talent
He supposed to say the primary reason was Hutchison...he said himself the secondary reason was financial flexibility. So just read between the lines.
He supposed to say the primary reason was Hutchison...he said himself the secondary reason was financial flexibility. So just read between the lines.
Last Minute Trade Buzz
4F464E5F512B0 wrote: The idea that a nobody like Hutchison would cost 2 Top 100 prospects is patently absurd. Please. NH is going to say what he feels like he has to say to save face for buying salary relief with projectable talent
He supposed to say the primary reason was Hutchison...he said himself the secondary reason was financial flexibility. So just read between the lines.
What lines need to be read between? They wanted Hutchison and they wanted rid of Liriano's contract. This is not a complicated trade. The effectiveness of it long term is the thing to debate.
He supposed to say the primary reason was Hutchison...he said himself the secondary reason was financial flexibility. So just read between the lines.
What lines need to be read between? They wanted Hutchison and they wanted rid of Liriano's contract. This is not a complicated trade. The effectiveness of it long term is the thing to debate.
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
I love how just so many Pirates fans all over not so much on here and a lot of the people in the media automatically just start agreeing and believing what Huntington says after he came out the other day and tried to spin the whole entire story. It's quite amusing.