OnlyBucs

I agree but maybe confusing it with a Texas trade of Kela & Diekman. Still wouldn't give Hayes or Cruz in that deal either.

Few years back 2016 offseason I was yelling trade Marte to Indians for 1B Santana and prospect P Mike Clevenger .



Everyone here was, no way you gotta add more, Marte is a gold glove yada yada yada . Marte is not a difference maker he is the highest value now to get a stud pitcher



Well Santana had another solid year and we had no 1b and Clevenger struggled but got his feet wet.





Now a few years later Cleveland is looking for a CF again . Lets trade Marte for the up and coming with exp. Clevenger !!!!!

77606F7766726B66736B070 wrote: I agree but maybe confusing it with a Texas trade of Kela & Diekman. Still wouldn't give Hayes or Cruz in that deal either.


You make a statement but on what do you base it. Please don't take this as a criticism. Seems a lot of folks want to keep Hayes and Cruz.



Hayes has the rep of being almost Brooks Robinson with the glove at 3B, he also gets on base, has elite speed, and shows some gap power but not a lot of HR power. There is hope that he can develop some HR power but hopefully not at the expense of getting on base. He is currently hitting 2nd in the Altoona lineup and for his average and OPS has only 28 RBI. I look at him now as being 2/3 of Starling Marte lacking only Marte's power.



As for Cruz, guy is tall, and he is showing that he can hit for average and power in A- baseball. But his fielding leaves a lot to be desired. But you need to consider that he is only 19 yrs old and is just growing into that tall frame. Talk I have seen suggests that he can play MLB SS but just how well. The talk also suggests that he will eventually be moved to 3B.



With that info I seem to see your idea as being justified right now. Unless of course the Bucs are overwhelmed with a deal for players with a lot of control. And those players might be as young and unproved as Hayes and Cruz.



I would say trade Hayes if Cruz was just a year behind Hayes in his development and Cruz was playing at 3B. To me Hayes being a GG caliber 3B prospect is more important that a slugging SS prospect with suspect fielding capabilities.

We are reportedly in on Archer.   Fwiw.   I doubt it's worth much.



I would do:

Meadows

Baz

Clay Holmes type depth starter/ org guy



Enough?

6B626A7B750F0 wrote: We are reportedly in on Archer.   Fwiw.   I doubt it's worth much.



I would do:

Meadows

Baz

Clay Holmes type depth starter/ org guy



Enough?


I would do that. Meadows will be an okay MLB outfielder but not the franchise type guy he was supposed to be. As for Baz, if it takes him to get Archer do it. And Holmes, your throw in guy.



But will Nutting do it. Considering what Archer will cost in terms of salary through 2021? I say no! So these three prospects are safe for now.

2D242C3D33490 wrote: We are reportedly in on Archer.   Fwiw.   I doubt it's worth much.



I would do:

Meadows

Baz

Clay Holmes type depth starter/ org guy



Enough?


I think a trade for Archer would quiet the masses.   I like Meadows, would like to keep him, and don’t think the Bucs would trade him.  However, he and Holmes might be the price for Archer.  I imagine the Rays wouldn’t mind some salary relief themselves.



I wouldn’t give up both Baz and Meadows though (our # 2 and 3 prospects to start the year).   Baz is young.  He spent his whole life whiffing batters throwing the ball right down the middle—he has some things to learn.   He is averaging 10.6 K/9, which means he has the stuff.  He probably just lacks control (both within and out of the strike zone).   If it takes a 3rd player, we have about 180 other candidates to throw in.



I like your aggressive thinking.  It just doesn’t seem like something TBMTIB would do.

7F6F6E594F4F432C0 wrote: Rotoworld linking us to Gausman and Givens for IF's like Hayes and Oneil Cruz.


Way too much to give up for those two files.  We have a Gausman type in the rotation already.  He isn't really an upgrade and Givens is having a LOUSY SEASON.  That deal would go against what NH does.  Now, we have a glutton of middle infielders, so one would have to go.  Hayes and O'Neil Cruz types would go in a deal for someone like Archer.


I would be very upset if we were to trade Cruz for this pile of mediocrity. I really feel that Cruz could develop into a franchise player. We have plenty of Gausman types.

7B7C504751320 wrote: We are reportedly in on Archer.   Fwiw.   I doubt it's worth much.



I would do:

Meadows

Baz

Clay Holmes type depth starter/ org guy



Enough?


I think a trade for Archer would quiet the masses.   I like Meadows, would like to keep him, and don’t think the Bucs would trade him.  However, he and Holmes might be the price for Archer.  I imagine the Rays wouldn’t mind some salary relief themselves.



I wouldn’t give up both Baz and Meadows though (our # 2 and 3 prospects to start the year).   Baz is young.  He spent his whole life whiffing batters throwing the ball right down the middle—he has some things to learn.   He is averaging 10.6 K/9, which means he has the stuff.  He probably just lacks control (both within and out of the strike zone).   If it takes a 3rd player, we have about 180 other candidates to throw in.



I like your aggressive thinking.  It just doesn’t seem like something TBMTIB would do.




I'm never too concerned with where our prospects are ranked. Especially low minors guys. After all, Moran was ranked 5th lol, come on. These lists are pretty comical sometimes. They don't know. I've come to believe we're better off scouting the back of the baseball card in 9 of of 10 cases.



I was told I should be really excited about Baz. I was. His pro performance is terrible. Almost 10h/9 and 5walks per game is not anything someone with his supposed pedigree should be doing in rookie ball

Do you think the Rays will even want Baz?

505951404E340 wrote: We are reportedly in on Archer.   Fwiw.   I doubt it's worth much.



I would do:

Meadows

Baz

Clay Holmes type depth starter/ org guy



Enough?


I think a trade for Archer would quiet the masses.   I like Meadows, would like to keep him, and don’t think the Bucs would trade him.  However, he and Holmes might be the price for Archer.  I imagine the Rays wouldn’t mind some salary relief themselves.



I wouldn’t give up both Baz and Meadows though (our # 2 and 3 prospects to start the year).   Baz is young.  He spent his whole life whiffing batters throwing the ball right down the middle—he has some things to learn.   He is averaging 10.6 K/9, which means he has the stuff.  He probably just lacks control (both within and out of the strike zone).   If it takes a 3rd player, we have about 180 other candidates to throw in.



I like your aggressive thinking.  It just doesn’t seem like something TBMTIB would do.




I'm never too concerned with where our prospects are ranked.  Especially low minors guys.  After all, Moran was ranked 5th lol, come on.    These lists are pretty comical sometimes.  They don't know.    I've come to believe we're  better off scouting the back of the baseball card in 9 of of 10 cases.   



I was told I should be really excited about Baz.   I was.  His pro performance is terrible.  Almost 10h/9 and 5walks per game is not anything someone with his supposed pedigree should be doing in rookie ball








to be fair, Baz and Jacob Webb were born in 1999. so he is one of youngest players on the team.