625740404B7240404B4C40250 wrote: I hope the rise begins in 2022. Honestly, it had better begin in 2022. If it doesn't, more folks will tap out.
That doesn't mean by leaps and bounds. It means steps. Even one step. But, it has to start.
That also means different things to different people. For some, it means only a 1 basis point improvement in the WP. To others, it's higher.
Bigger steps in 2023.
How we’re talking! The rise? What does it mean? I’ll admit (and I maybe alone in this), my perfect scenario is the Pirates improve and still draft in the top 3 or 4 next year.
This year has been a three ring circus. I expect BC to call Indeed soon to see if they can send a starting pitcher over right away.
Next season I pretty much agree with EC above: up until trade deadline I think the Pirates are trying to create value for trade purposes. So half a season may look wasted. But after the TD, Ben starts moving pieces FOR the Pirates. The beginning of Ben’s vision of the team starts arriving in Pittsburgh.
2022 my not have great results, but it will feel very different by mid summer. At least that’s my hope. My expectation more or less.
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
I dnk. DN have the time to think of all the factors. I think this is one of those things where the majority of us will recognize it if it's done.
Just off the top of my head, maybe something like getting to .450 (a 100 basis point improvement) or finishing within 7 games of fourth place. (Dave says that we'll finish fourth next season, but you know Dave.) Today, we're sitting 14.5 out of fourth.
Better quality of play (nearly impossible to define/opinionated,) significant increase in overall OPS, significant reduction in team ERA, significant reduction in RD. I think we'll see the signs of a better club if it should happen.
Then, we can have fun arguing whether that's the case or not. After all, those discussions are usually better than the games themselves.
2021 mattered. We punted. Over and done with.
2022 matters.
2023 matters.
Every season matters. I guarantee that fans in other cities will tell us the same thing. Every season matters- for one thing or another. But, they matter.
Just off the top of my head, maybe something like getting to .450 (a 100 basis point improvement) or finishing within 7 games of fourth place. (Dave says that we'll finish fourth next season, but you know Dave.) Today, we're sitting 14.5 out of fourth.
Better quality of play (nearly impossible to define/opinionated,) significant increase in overall OPS, significant reduction in team ERA, significant reduction in RD. I think we'll see the signs of a better club if it should happen.
Then, we can have fun arguing whether that's the case or not. After all, those discussions are usually better than the games themselves.
2021 mattered. We punted. Over and done with.
2022 matters.
2023 matters.
Every season matters. I guarantee that fans in other cities will tell us the same thing. Every season matters- for one thing or another. But, they matter.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
162334343F0634343F3834510 wrote: It's not worthwhile to re-hash that. What we could have done/what we should have done....it's been excessively repetitive and the result is the same- meaningless.
What IS important is what was done. Everyone knew the likely outcome- THIS- almost amateurish play by multiple players, and a bottom-five probable finish.
Everyone who follows the club as closely as we do understands the club's direction, so the debate on what should have been done before the season began has no benefit.
Thank you for writing what I haven't. I don't recall anyone saying that this is "simple." Talent evaluation and club formation isn't "simple." If it was, anyone would achieve.
At least within 42 years.
With all due respect, you make it sound like I’m on here everyday beating the same horse. Not true. It is you that are making the same complaints about the results of BC’s plan THIS season. You have not been content with the results. Above, you offered an alternative that Ben could have followed that would have satisfied you. The problem is HE DIDNT follow your plan. The results this season are exactly what anyone should expect from his plan.
I’ve got one hope: his plan works. I think the initial steps look better than expected. They give me hope for the future. But as Bobster is correct to point out - whether BC is successful today won’t be known for a couple years down the road.
And just to add: you’ve seen my posts about the amateur results of this team. Just ridiculous. Embarrassing. My hope (and expectation) is that BC is reminding BN that this is what you get when you run a MLB team like you run a regional newspaper.
Truly, I really don't think that you "beat the same horse" every day. I just think that you're a passionate fan who expresses your opinion. That's a good thing.
"Success" is also arbitrary. I think you're right that "true" success will be further along....but, that shouldn't diminish the incremental time that leads up to it. That's just my opinion, and I think that's where the biggest disconnect between Shed and me...and most of the rest of us has been.
And I get what you’re saying, I think: Ben may be right on schedule with his plan, but his plan is a bitter pill to swallow. Some people may not agree with BC’s plan. It is risky because it has resulted in such amateurish baseball. If you don’t agree with his plan I get it. But the results of his plan are not surprising.
But just think about if the Pirates do start winning! Everyone on OBN will love each other!! World peace is possible!
What IS important is what was done. Everyone knew the likely outcome- THIS- almost amateurish play by multiple players, and a bottom-five probable finish.
Everyone who follows the club as closely as we do understands the club's direction, so the debate on what should have been done before the season began has no benefit.
Thank you for writing what I haven't. I don't recall anyone saying that this is "simple." Talent evaluation and club formation isn't "simple." If it was, anyone would achieve.
At least within 42 years.
With all due respect, you make it sound like I’m on here everyday beating the same horse. Not true. It is you that are making the same complaints about the results of BC’s plan THIS season. You have not been content with the results. Above, you offered an alternative that Ben could have followed that would have satisfied you. The problem is HE DIDNT follow your plan. The results this season are exactly what anyone should expect from his plan.
I’ve got one hope: his plan works. I think the initial steps look better than expected. They give me hope for the future. But as Bobster is correct to point out - whether BC is successful today won’t be known for a couple years down the road.
And just to add: you’ve seen my posts about the amateur results of this team. Just ridiculous. Embarrassing. My hope (and expectation) is that BC is reminding BN that this is what you get when you run a MLB team like you run a regional newspaper.
Truly, I really don't think that you "beat the same horse" every day. I just think that you're a passionate fan who expresses your opinion. That's a good thing.
"Success" is also arbitrary. I think you're right that "true" success will be further along....but, that shouldn't diminish the incremental time that leads up to it. That's just my opinion, and I think that's where the biggest disconnect between Shed and me...and most of the rest of us has been.
And I get what you’re saying, I think: Ben may be right on schedule with his plan, but his plan is a bitter pill to swallow. Some people may not agree with BC’s plan. It is risky because it has resulted in such amateurish baseball. If you don’t agree with his plan I get it. But the results of his plan are not surprising.
But just think about if the Pirates do start winning! Everyone on OBN will love each other!! World peace is possible!
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
No way.
We could go 161- 1 and win the WS in Game 5. Someone's going to bitch about those two losses where the manager after Shelton rested some guy.
We could go 1- 161 and everyone else will say that Cherington's doing a fantastic job. The announcer stinks.
That's baseball. That's sports. That's life!
We could go 161- 1 and win the WS in Game 5. Someone's going to bitch about those two losses where the manager after Shelton rested some guy.
We could go 1- 161 and everyone else will say that Cherington's doing a fantastic job. The announcer stinks.
That's baseball. That's sports. That's life!
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rucker59@gmail.com
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
So here’s a baseball “thing” I will be watching this off season:
I expect Ben to do two things
1) sign some FA’s to value contracts, hoping a couple can be flipped for prospects at the TD.
2) make a bigger trade or two to include some of our prospects in order to minimize a looming problem with the 40 man roster. These trades would bring major league help.
Example: Keller with a few decent farm hands. His results have been sufficient, I think, to spark interest in a few organizations.
I expect Ben to do two things
1) sign some FA’s to value contracts, hoping a couple can be flipped for prospects at the TD.
2) make a bigger trade or two to include some of our prospects in order to minimize a looming problem with the 40 man roster. These trades would bring major league help.
Example: Keller with a few decent farm hands. His results have been sufficient, I think, to spark interest in a few organizations.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
4F7A6D6D665F6D6D66616D080 wrote: No way.
We could go 161- 1 and win the WS in Game 5. Someone's going to bitch about those two losses where the manager after Shelton rested some guy.
We could go 1- 161 and everyone else will say that Cherington's doing a fantastic job. The announcer stinks.
That's baseball. That's sports. That's life!
Type it up (oops, you just did!), I’ll sign off on this!
;D
We could go 161- 1 and win the WS in Game 5. Someone's going to bitch about those two losses where the manager after Shelton rested some guy.
We could go 1- 161 and everyone else will say that Cherington's doing a fantastic job. The announcer stinks.
That's baseball. That's sports. That's life!
Type it up (oops, you just did!), I’ll sign off on this!
;D-
rucker59@gmail.com
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
A correction: I should have referenced Doc’s post above regarding the importance of the trade deadline.
I agreed with Ec on a different point.
I agreed with Ec on a different point.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Bucs vs Cubbies - Game Thread - 9/5
I'll be wrong.
I'm not expecting much in terms of a FA signing this off-season. I know that one might look good to do, but I just don't think that's the Pirates' way. If we do it, it will be a lower-tier guy; even lower than the Liriano reclamation way back when.
If anything, I can see some talent being acquired throgh trade. Since we have very few chips, it might mean being willing to cough up a highly-regarded kid in the system. I'm not sure that the team's willing to do that, either.
They may make the biggest mistake of all- keep most of the status quo; hoping that improvement will come from the calendar.
Most likely- a couple pipeline suspects might be called up to replace a couple of the current stiffs.
A lot can happen between today and next April. Or, nothing at all.
Tune in to find out.
I'm not expecting much in terms of a FA signing this off-season. I know that one might look good to do, but I just don't think that's the Pirates' way. If we do it, it will be a lower-tier guy; even lower than the Liriano reclamation way back when.
If anything, I can see some talent being acquired throgh trade. Since we have very few chips, it might mean being willing to cough up a highly-regarded kid in the system. I'm not sure that the team's willing to do that, either.
They may make the biggest mistake of all- keep most of the status quo; hoping that improvement will come from the calendar.
Most likely- a couple pipeline suspects might be called up to replace a couple of the current stiffs.
A lot can happen between today and next April. Or, nothing at all.
Tune in to find out.