OnlyBucs

Right now, the organization stinks from top to bottom. Lots of guys need to go. Everyone can’t be fired but it ought to be under serious consideration.

This team is really hard to watch. It's like they all gave up once the trade deadline passed and they realized they were still here. I really thought the young people would play with more energy.

686A707660050 wrote: This team is really hard to watch. It's like they all gave up once the trade deadline passed and they realized they were still here. I really thought the young people would play with more energy.


Early on, the young guys did play with energy. So what changed? Do they see a manager who doesn't know what he's doing? Have the older guys influenced them in a negative way? Do they see that playing for the organization is a dead end proposition?

7F7D676177120 wrote: This team is really hard to watch. It's like they all gave up once the trade deadline passed and they realized they were still here. I really thought the young people would play with more energy.


I'm not sure what "playing energy" means.  If it means "excitement," then I'm not sure how much it matters.  A person can be enthusiastic about their work, but not as good at it as their boss- in this case, fans- want them to be.  So what if they're ""rah rah."  Other players might not "play with energy," but they're good.  I'll take that any day.



162 is a grind, and this is August.  I would think that the constant beat down by opponents can't be easy for a player of any level, of any experience.  They're over-matched, and it's obvious.



They know that a Hall Of Famer considers them "Nothing." Worse than "Nothing," collectively a "Hodgepodge." He isn't alone.



Didn't need to be this way, but it's become this.



The tough part- the solution would be getting better talent on the team.  That means that some of them would go.  They know it.  The Pirates aren't under many microscopes, but some of these guys are at least under the magnifying glass.  They know that their days are numbered.  So, I wouldn't blame them if it's wearing on them.

5A777A6B6C7D6A2A29180 wrote: I wonder what kind of interim manager Don Kelly would make for the last month of the season. Shelton's team is just not even competitive so it's time to dispense with the "they play hard for him" mantra. They don't do anything well. Why not send his incompetent butt packing (I'll drive him to the airport), give Kelly a brief look and then interview candidates (including Kelly) next year. Cherington stupidly said Shelton will return next year. But ever since he said thar, the team has been indescribably awful. So this is an opportunity for Cherington to reverse himself and rid the team of the Mortimer Snerd of managers. 


One problem Bobster, will BOB eat the last year of Shelton's contract?

62607A7C6A0F0 wrote: This team is really hard to watch. It's like they all gave up once the trade deadline passed and they realized they were still here. I really thought the young people would play with more energy.
I don't know if energy is the right word. As a viewer, I get a sense of lethargy watching them lose badly nearly every night. Maybe the consistently poor play of the team creates a lack of energy among the viewers. The players just seem outclassed and overmatched. I agree with GW about that. But they aren't loafing on the field. Cruz muffs a pop up or Castro has no idea what to do with the ball but it's not lack of energy. Even Will Craig was very energetic last year in chasing the batter from 1B all the way back to home.



Similarly, when the media is desperate to find something positive to say about Shelton, they say the players play hard for him. But all that appears to mean is that they run fast. Muffing routine plays in the field or having bad ABs or getting picked off doesn't seem like a team that is playing hard even if they run full speed to 1B as they are thrown out after hitting weak ground balls. So I guess I'm saying they seem to play with energy; they just play poorly. Consistently outclassed by the opposition and often not even appearing to know what to do.

Here's a tough one; one that many if not all of us have faced in our own lives:



We have some good players- Reynolds, Bednar, Hayes. Good.



As with most teams, some who aren't so good. Too many aren't good enough.



It's hard for a team do do well if there are too many who can't be relied on to do a good job. Some of the better folks get frustrated by that- some silently, so we'll never know.



Will it be enough for some of the better guys to consider their options?

705D50414657400003320 wrote: This team is really hard to watch. It's like they all gave up once the trade deadline passed and they realized they were still here. I really thought the young people would play with more energy.
I don't know if energy is the right word. As a viewer, I get a sense of lethargy watching them lose badly nearly every night. Maybe the consistently poor play of the team creates a lack of energy among the viewers. The players just seem outclassed and overmatched. I agree with GW about that. But they aren't loafing on the field. Cruz muffs a pop up or Castro has no idea what to do with the ball but it's not lack of energy. Even Will Craig was very energetic last year in chasing the batter from 1B all the way back to home.



Similarly, when the media is desperate to find something positive to say about Shelton, they say the players play hard for him. But all that appears to mean is that they run fast. Muffing routine plays in the field or having bad ABs or getting picked off doesn't seem like a team that is playing hard even if they run full speed to 1B as they are thrown out after hitting weak ground balls. So I guess I'm saying they seem to play with energy; they just play poorly. Consistently outclassed by the opposition and often not even appearing to know what to do.   


On a tangent note- perhaps related- some of these teams are in "stretch mode." They're running for the playoffs. So, their ears are pinned back, going for the finish line.



They're going to be hard to beat. To do it, we have to be at our

best.



It might not be a matter of "giving up" or "lost energy." That could be the same. Maybe it's just because the opponents will probably be more geared up as the season winds down that it makes us appear less energetic. In the Phillies' case, they're excited that Bryce Harper returned from injury.



Who knows?

1B2E3939320B39393235395C0 wrote: This team is really hard to watch. It's like they all gave up once the trade deadline passed and they realized they were still here. I really thought the young people would play with more energy.
I don't know if energy is the right word. As a viewer, I get a sense of lethargy watching them lose badly nearly every night. Maybe the consistently poor play of the team creates a lack of energy among the viewers. The players just seem outclassed and overmatched. I agree with GW about that. But they aren't loafing on the field. Cruz muffs a pop up or Castro has no idea what to do with the ball but it's not lack of energy. Even Will Craig was very energetic last year in chasing the batter from 1B all the way back to home.



Similarly, when the media is desperate to find something positive to say about Shelton, they say the players play hard for him. But all that appears to mean is that they run fast. Muffing routine plays in the field or having bad ABs or getting picked off doesn't seem like a team that is playing hard even if they run full speed to 1B as they are thrown out after hitting weak ground balls. So I guess I'm saying they seem to play with energy; they just play poorly. Consistently outclassed by the opposition and often not even appearing to know what to do.   


On a tangent note- perhaps related- some of these teams are in "stretch mode."  They're running for the playoffs.  So, their ears are pinned back, going for the finish line.



They're going to be hard to beat.  To do it, we have to be at our

best.



It might not be a matter of "giving up" or "lost energy."  That could be the same.  Maybe it's just because the opponents will probably be more geared up as the season winds down that it makes us appear less energetic.  In the Phillies' case, they're excited that Bryce Harper returned from injury.



Who knows?


I agree. In addition, I've read interviews over the years with players who were just traded from the Pirates to contenders and they had similar comments about the different attitude when a team goes out expecting to win. That was a refreshing change for them since they were coming from the Pirates, who did not have the expectation to win. So even when a team is not in "stretch mode," there is a different atmosphere on a winning team than on one that can't compete. You can't be 47-79 and go out for your next game excited about going toe to toe with the opponent and expecting to win. But a team playing against a 47-79 team is excited about adding another win to improve their standings.

That's out there, too. If I was more of a betting man, I'd bet that some of those comments from from guys who went to "looser pocket" teams.



I'd think that many of those teams have done better than the Pirates in recent years/recent decades. It's easier to have a different culture when things go well. There are certain expectations.



I once worked for a corporation where many of us were skeptical when the president made certain announcements and "commitments" towards improvement.



Guess what? The guy was serious. In less than a week, he proved it to us, without boring anyone with the details.



I think the Pirates' biggest problem is that the actions don't often support the words, unfortunately. I think we'll know that the culture has changed.