Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
Once again, the team shows it's capable of playing good baseball. If some or most of these guys are the right guys then they need to demonstrate they can do it more often. Combine them with other guys from the minors who're capable and we just might have ourselves a ball team.
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Bobster21
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
0254425659435358554270575D51595C1E53300 wrote: Once again, the team shows it's capable of playing good baseball. If some or most of these guys are the right guys then they need to demonstrate they can do it more often. Combine them with other guys from the minors who're capable and we just might have ourselves a ball team.
I think they were fortunate that all of their "bad baseball" didn't result in a loss. But it shows what good pitching can do. Delay couldn't handle a foul pop, a third strike or a ball hit in front of the plate. But each time, Contreras pitched out of it. The Pirate offense scored enough runs that it didn't matter that yet another in an endless series of outrageous mistakes by 3B coach Rabelo turned a single into a DP. Even the eternally optimistic Greg Brown was exasperated and yelled, "Oh no! Another mistake." I think these types of mistakes are a big reason that wins are few and far between. There's too little talent on the team and the managing and coaching is a detriment rather than an asset.
I think they were fortunate that all of their "bad baseball" didn't result in a loss. But it shows what good pitching can do. Delay couldn't handle a foul pop, a third strike or a ball hit in front of the plate. But each time, Contreras pitched out of it. The Pirate offense scored enough runs that it didn't matter that yet another in an endless series of outrageous mistakes by 3B coach Rabelo turned a single into a DP. Even the eternally optimistic Greg Brown was exasperated and yelled, "Oh no! Another mistake." I think these types of mistakes are a big reason that wins are few and far between. There's too little talent on the team and the managing and coaching is a detriment rather than an asset.
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
7F525F4E49584F0F0C3D0 wrote: Former reliever Capps knows nothing about base running and the less he say about it, the better.
He keeps praising Cruz for that 2-run triple with no outs in the 5th. Capps acknowledged the adage that you never make the first out at 3B but said it would have been ok in this case because 2 runs were scoring. But those 2 runs were scoring regardless and the replay showed Cruz not running hard to 1B. Cruz seemed to make it to 3B easily but it would not have been ok if he had been out. Had he been out, it would have been fair to criticize him for not hustling initially and for not settling for a 2-run double rather than making the 1st out at 3B. It actually seemed like an easy triple but Capps' analysis was 100% wrong.
Did you watch the whole play? Cruz didn't need to "hustle" because there was no where to go! Mitchell initially started to take a step back towards second, and Delay was held up too. He watched the runners ahead of him as he was going to second, and when Delay kept going, that's when he put on the after burners to get the triple.
Sorry, just had to put in my two cents because I'm starting to see a lot of "he isn't hustling' comments throughout the internet. Ever see how he makes practically any ground ball a close play at first?
He's a pretty astute baserunner, and if you go watch the replay of it, you'll see what I'm talking about,.
He keeps praising Cruz for that 2-run triple with no outs in the 5th. Capps acknowledged the adage that you never make the first out at 3B but said it would have been ok in this case because 2 runs were scoring. But those 2 runs were scoring regardless and the replay showed Cruz not running hard to 1B. Cruz seemed to make it to 3B easily but it would not have been ok if he had been out. Had he been out, it would have been fair to criticize him for not hustling initially and for not settling for a 2-run double rather than making the 1st out at 3B. It actually seemed like an easy triple but Capps' analysis was 100% wrong.
Did you watch the whole play? Cruz didn't need to "hustle" because there was no where to go! Mitchell initially started to take a step back towards second, and Delay was held up too. He watched the runners ahead of him as he was going to second, and when Delay kept going, that's when he put on the after burners to get the triple.
Sorry, just had to put in my two cents because I'm starting to see a lot of "he isn't hustling' comments throughout the internet. Ever see how he makes practically any ground ball a close play at first?
He's a pretty astute baserunner, and if you go watch the replay of it, you'll see what I'm talking about,.
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Bobster21
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
587E796C65697E68600B0 wrote: Former reliever Capps knows nothing about base running and the less he say about it, the better.
He keeps praising Cruz for that 2-run triple with no outs in the 5th. Capps acknowledged the adage that you never make the first out at 3B but said it would have been ok in this case because 2 runs were scoring. But those 2 runs were scoring regardless and the replay showed Cruz not running hard to 1B. Cruz seemed to make it to 3B easily but it would not have been ok if he had been out. Had he been out, it would have been fair to criticize him for not hustling initially and for not settling for a 2-run double rather than making the 1st out at 3B. It actually seemed like an easy triple but Capps' analysis was 100% wrong.
Did you watch the whole play? Cruz didn't need to "hustle" because there was no where to go! Mitchell initially started to take a step back towards second, and Delay was held up too. He watched the runners ahead of him as he was going to second, and when Delay kept going, that's when he put on the after burners to get the triple.
Sorry, just had to put in my two cents because I'm starting to see a lot of "he isn't hustling' comments throughout the internet. Ever see how he makes practically any ground ball a close play at first?
He's a pretty astute baserunner, and if you go watch the replay of it, you'll see what I'm talking about,.
I rewatched at your suggestion and again saw Cruz jog out of the box and continue at half speed to 1B on an obvious gap shot. Even though Mitchell initially hesitated, Cruz had to know he had at least a double. Rounding 1B, Cruz went full speed and easily had a triple.
My point is not to criticize Cruz but rather Capps' analysis. Capps said that even if Cruz had made the 1st out at 3B it would have been ok in that situation. It would not have been. Cruz wasn't even close to being out a 3B but in Capps' scenario, an out there would have to be traced back to him not going full speed out of the box. And Capps' point that a 1st out at 3B would have been ok because 2 runners scored, ignored the advantage of continuing the inning with a runner at 2B and no outs rather than 1 out and no one on base.
He keeps praising Cruz for that 2-run triple with no outs in the 5th. Capps acknowledged the adage that you never make the first out at 3B but said it would have been ok in this case because 2 runs were scoring. But those 2 runs were scoring regardless and the replay showed Cruz not running hard to 1B. Cruz seemed to make it to 3B easily but it would not have been ok if he had been out. Had he been out, it would have been fair to criticize him for not hustling initially and for not settling for a 2-run double rather than making the 1st out at 3B. It actually seemed like an easy triple but Capps' analysis was 100% wrong.
Did you watch the whole play? Cruz didn't need to "hustle" because there was no where to go! Mitchell initially started to take a step back towards second, and Delay was held up too. He watched the runners ahead of him as he was going to second, and when Delay kept going, that's when he put on the after burners to get the triple.
Sorry, just had to put in my two cents because I'm starting to see a lot of "he isn't hustling' comments throughout the internet. Ever see how he makes practically any ground ball a close play at first?
He's a pretty astute baserunner, and if you go watch the replay of it, you'll see what I'm talking about,.
I rewatched at your suggestion and again saw Cruz jog out of the box and continue at half speed to 1B on an obvious gap shot. Even though Mitchell initially hesitated, Cruz had to know he had at least a double. Rounding 1B, Cruz went full speed and easily had a triple.
My point is not to criticize Cruz but rather Capps' analysis. Capps said that even if Cruz had made the 1st out at 3B it would have been ok in that situation. It would not have been. Cruz wasn't even close to being out a 3B but in Capps' scenario, an out there would have to be traced back to him not going full speed out of the box. And Capps' point that a 1st out at 3B would have been ok because 2 runners scored, ignored the advantage of continuing the inning with a runner at 2B and no outs rather than 1 out and no one on base.
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
So I missed the game last night because I took Mister Man to go see Steven Wright, who is as hilarious as ever.
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
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Bobster21
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
002621343D31263038530 wrote: So I missed the game last night because I took Mister Man to go see Steven Wright, who is as hilarious as ever.
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
I didn't know he was still performing. Always liked him.
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
I didn't know he was still performing. Always liked him.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
0F222F3E39283F7F7C4D0 wrote: So I missed the game last night because I took Mister Man to go see Steven Wright, who is as hilarious as ever.
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
I didn't know he was still performing. Always liked him.
One of my favorite one-liners of his, and I'm paraphrasing, is when he saw a sign in a restaurant that said, "Breakfast Anytime", so he walked in and ordered breakfast during the Renaissance.
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
I didn't know he was still performing. Always liked him.
One of my favorite one-liners of his, and I'm paraphrasing, is when he saw a sign in a restaurant that said, "Breakfast Anytime", so he walked in and ordered breakfast during the Renaissance.
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Bobster21
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
015741555A40505B564173545E525A5F1D50330 wrote: So I missed the game last night because I took Mister Man to go see Steven Wright, who is as hilarious as ever.
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
I didn't know he was still performing. Always liked him.
One of my favorite one-liners of his, and I'm paraphrasing, is when he saw a sign in a restaurant that said, "Breakfast Anytime", so he walked in and ordered breakfast during the Renaissance.
I like, "I took a lie detector test.....no I didn't."
What a great one liner- "I wonder if little boys in Cleveland are growing up playing cowboys and guardians now?"
I didn't know he was still performing. Always liked him.
One of my favorite one-liners of his, and I'm paraphrasing, is when he saw a sign in a restaurant that said, "Breakfast Anytime", so he walked in and ordered breakfast during the Renaissance.
I like, "I took a lie detector test.....no I didn't."
Game Thread - 9/9 - Bucs vs Cards
I know yesterday's game is almost an afterthought now, but it shouldn't be when it comes to Rabelo's inept coaching.
First, I can't believe he was waving Reynolds home so confidently only to throw up the stop sign after Reynolds had already rounded the bag at full speed. Reynolds did his best to try and scramble back to third, but Rabelo had already ensured that he was going to be out.
And, when Castro was then thrown out at second after trying to advance to third on the play, my brain immediately shifted into an oh-no another Castro base-running mistake. I then watched the replays, and as was noted by an earlier poster, you could clearly see Rabelo waving Castro on to advance to third.
All third base coaches make mistakes now and then, but at this point, it is hard to remember when Rabelo may have made a good decision on a play when there was a real question if the runner should have stayed at third or tried to advance to home.
Also, I'm not sure if I have ever seen a play when the 3rd base coach was directly responsible for a double play, particularly when neither of the outs was a force out.
BC is making a mistake in not terminating Rabelo today. Players need to be accountable for their play on the field, and coaches need to be accountable for their actions and inactions. I am sure that the players recognize that Rabelo is worse than a joke --- and there is nothing funny about asking a player to try and score on a play when there is virtually no chance of success, a situation that could lead to an unnecessary injury --- and that if management does not hold him accountable, why should I be accountable.
I took it as a positive sign for accountability when the Pirates (finally) moved on from Cora at the end of last season. Unfortunately, the new coach is even worse; much worse.
While I have no reason to expect that he would do it, I would like to see the Bucs bring Wehner out of the broadcast booth and have him become the 3rd base coach. Wehner played under Leyland, turned his modest talent into a career, and appears to both know the game and how it should be played.
A couple of other comments:
1) Gotta hope that last night's game was an outlier for Delay, who has regularly looked good behind the plate.
2) Mitchell has a weak arm that does not play well in RF, and is not all that fast. Earlier this year the Bucs worked with Madris on an in-season transition to first. If the Bucs have no plans to shift Cruz to first this off-season, I wonder if they could consider making the move with Mitchell. Mitchell has hit well at AAA and the Bucs need a LH first baseman who can hit.
3) Contreras's command was a bit off and he only struck out 1, but he continues to look like a pitcher who can make it as a good quality starter.
4) Good to see Hayes hit the ball with some authority last night on a couple of occasions.
5) Also good to see the Pirates smack Mikelos around a bit after he almost no-hit them the last time out.
6) The Pirates should employ a tutor with Cruz and other young latin players to help them become more comfortable with English. Even though I have a number of years of Spanish classes, I would be lost if I suddenly was in a situation that I had to understand and speak Spanish at a conversational pace. However, to date, I have rarely been in a situation (except in some rural Alaskan villages) in which my feeble skills with another language has been a detriment. I don't view being dependent on a translator as a good path going forward.
7) Lastly, hoping that Brubaker can keep the Bucs in the game tonight. With Banuelos and DeJong both pitching last night, the bullpen will be down its 2 best arms. Banuelos has been a nice dumpster dive pick-up, and much better than I expected.
First, I can't believe he was waving Reynolds home so confidently only to throw up the stop sign after Reynolds had already rounded the bag at full speed. Reynolds did his best to try and scramble back to third, but Rabelo had already ensured that he was going to be out.
And, when Castro was then thrown out at second after trying to advance to third on the play, my brain immediately shifted into an oh-no another Castro base-running mistake. I then watched the replays, and as was noted by an earlier poster, you could clearly see Rabelo waving Castro on to advance to third.
All third base coaches make mistakes now and then, but at this point, it is hard to remember when Rabelo may have made a good decision on a play when there was a real question if the runner should have stayed at third or tried to advance to home.
Also, I'm not sure if I have ever seen a play when the 3rd base coach was directly responsible for a double play, particularly when neither of the outs was a force out.
BC is making a mistake in not terminating Rabelo today. Players need to be accountable for their play on the field, and coaches need to be accountable for their actions and inactions. I am sure that the players recognize that Rabelo is worse than a joke --- and there is nothing funny about asking a player to try and score on a play when there is virtually no chance of success, a situation that could lead to an unnecessary injury --- and that if management does not hold him accountable, why should I be accountable.
I took it as a positive sign for accountability when the Pirates (finally) moved on from Cora at the end of last season. Unfortunately, the new coach is even worse; much worse.
While I have no reason to expect that he would do it, I would like to see the Bucs bring Wehner out of the broadcast booth and have him become the 3rd base coach. Wehner played under Leyland, turned his modest talent into a career, and appears to both know the game and how it should be played.
A couple of other comments:
1) Gotta hope that last night's game was an outlier for Delay, who has regularly looked good behind the plate.
2) Mitchell has a weak arm that does not play well in RF, and is not all that fast. Earlier this year the Bucs worked with Madris on an in-season transition to first. If the Bucs have no plans to shift Cruz to first this off-season, I wonder if they could consider making the move with Mitchell. Mitchell has hit well at AAA and the Bucs need a LH first baseman who can hit.
3) Contreras's command was a bit off and he only struck out 1, but he continues to look like a pitcher who can make it as a good quality starter.
4) Good to see Hayes hit the ball with some authority last night on a couple of occasions.
5) Also good to see the Pirates smack Mikelos around a bit after he almost no-hit them the last time out.
6) The Pirates should employ a tutor with Cruz and other young latin players to help them become more comfortable with English. Even though I have a number of years of Spanish classes, I would be lost if I suddenly was in a situation that I had to understand and speak Spanish at a conversational pace. However, to date, I have rarely been in a situation (except in some rural Alaskan villages) in which my feeble skills with another language has been a detriment. I don't view being dependent on a translator as a good path going forward.
7) Lastly, hoping that Brubaker can keep the Bucs in the game tonight. With Banuelos and DeJong both pitching last night, the bullpen will be down its 2 best arms. Banuelos has been a nice dumpster dive pick-up, and much better than I expected.