42676464715A676F6D7A080 wrote: The Pirates with a loss tomorrow will have gone 2-8 on this 10 game homestand and a combined 1-6 against both the Brewers and Reds. That's unacceptable for a team with this much talent fighting for a playoff spot. I'm with VA now a lot when he says a lot of changes on this team need to be made going into next season. Certain guys do need traded probably such as JHay and dare I say the names Cole,Cutch or even someone like Marte. Clint Hurdle can't have another season like this one this season I feel and keep his job after next season. Not saying he will get fired if they have a losing record next season but if they continue to play the way they are this season next season there is definitely going to need to be some serious talk of a managerial change. Too much talent on this team to have 2 bad years In a row. Hurdle needs to be held accountable for this mess.
You can't put the full blame for this disasterous season on Hurdle. I do however blame Hurdle for the lack of fight and enthusiasm displayed since the trade deadline. Not sure if it was VA or NC that stated that trading Melancon was the Front Office throwing the white flag on the season. Although the return for Melancon looks good; you don't trade the best closer when your team is fighting for the playoffs. You have to put a large potion of blame on the FO.
This had to have a negative effect in the clubhouse.
Bottom line however is that there were just too many under performers. If I had to rate the top culprits; I would say in order:
1) Just about the entire pitching staff with the exception of the young starters recalled from AAA
2) Cutch- offense, defense, base running
3) Cervelli- Total lack of production
4) Marte-Power disappeared. Expected 15-20 HR. Got 7
Really, Marte? Under performing? C'mon. He's batting .311 which happens to be 29 points higher than anyone else on the team with a minimum of 200 plate appearances. His OBP is .362, he's stolen 47 bases, has 17 outfield assists (leading the league), leads the team in doubles with 34 and by the way has hit 9 homers not 7. His OPS is only 7 points below Polanco who leads the team in home runs and rbi. And yes, Marte has a higher slugging percentage than Josh Bell who everyone views as a basher. The fact that Harrison, Cervelli, and Jaso have hit a total of 9 home runs combined has put a premium on power for this team that has led some to perceive Marte's home run drop off as significant. In reality this year Marte has improved over last year in BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS.
If we're going to talk about under performing players for the Bucs this year Marte should not be in that conversation.
Game thread 9/10-Walking Dead Game 1
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Game thread 9/10-Walking Dead Game 1
Just too much inconsistency all the way across the board with this team. One night Marte and Polanco both look great the next night they both can't remember to run or which base to throw too. I'm sick and tired of the mental lapses this team has had the last 2-3 seasons even when they were winning. It's costing them way too many games. Hurdle isn't doing anything to fix it either because the same damn things continue to happen game after game. A lot of players did under achieve this season and hopefully that will change next season and make the Bucs a better team. The team has a lot of potential going into next season but a number of key things need to change drastically if the Pirates are going to get back to the playoffs.
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Bobster21
Game thread 9/10-Walking Dead Game 1
64435256534E71455253534E370 wrote: Just too much inconsistency all the way across the board with this team. One night Marte and Polanco both look great the next night they both can't remember to run or which base to throw too. I'm sick and tired of the mental lapses this team has had the last 2-3 seasons even when they were winning. It's costing them way too many games. Hurdle isn't doing anything to fix it either because the same damn things continue to happen game after game. A lot of players did under achieve this season and hopefully that will change next season and make the Bucs a better team. The team has a lot of potential going into next season but a number of key things need to change drastically if the Pirates are going to get back to the playoffs.
I agree. A player's slump is out of the manager's control. But when a team consistently demonstrates lack of knowledge of what to do, that falls on the manager. A manager should get the most out of his players. That means even if a guy hits only .240, he should do his best on the bases and in the field. But year after year, the Pirates make so many mental mistakes that they don't even begin to compensate for players not hitting and even those who do hit well make costly, stupid mistakes. It's so pathetic to see all the players going through their various handshakes, dances and poses in the dugout and on the field and then demonstrating that they don't even know the right way to play the game. All style and no substance. It's been going on for so long that it's now the norm for this team. We can't expect it to change if the coaching staff hasn't fixed it by now. I suspect that since Hurdle was in control when the team went from a joke to a contender, he'll have the job as long as he wants it. Besides, the FO has never demonstrated a willingness to spend enough to win it all anyway. So as long as they seem competitive under Hurdle, I think the FO is satisfied. But I think a major shakeup of the coaching staff is in order.
I agree. A player's slump is out of the manager's control. But when a team consistently demonstrates lack of knowledge of what to do, that falls on the manager. A manager should get the most out of his players. That means even if a guy hits only .240, he should do his best on the bases and in the field. But year after year, the Pirates make so many mental mistakes that they don't even begin to compensate for players not hitting and even those who do hit well make costly, stupid mistakes. It's so pathetic to see all the players going through their various handshakes, dances and poses in the dugout and on the field and then demonstrating that they don't even know the right way to play the game. All style and no substance. It's been going on for so long that it's now the norm for this team. We can't expect it to change if the coaching staff hasn't fixed it by now. I suspect that since Hurdle was in control when the team went from a joke to a contender, he'll have the job as long as he wants it. Besides, the FO has never demonstrated a willingness to spend enough to win it all anyway. So as long as they seem competitive under Hurdle, I think the FO is satisfied. But I think a major shakeup of the coaching staff is in order.
Game thread 9/10-Walking Dead Game 1
745954454253440407360 wrote: Just too much inconsistency all the way across the board with this team. One night Marte and Polanco both look great the next night they both can't remember to run or which base to throw too. I'm sick and tired of the mental lapses this team has had the last 2-3 seasons even when they were winning. It's costing them way too many games. Hurdle isn't doing anything to fix it either because the same damn things continue to happen game after game. A lot of players did under achieve this season and hopefully that will change next season and make the Bucs a better team. The team has a lot of potential going into next season but a number of key things need to change drastically if the Pirates are going to get back to the playoffs.
I agree. A player's slump is out of the manager's control. But when a team consistently demonstrates lack of knowledge of what to do, that falls on the manager. A manager should get the most out of his players. That means even if a guy hits only .240, he should do his best on the bases and in the field. But year after year, the Pirates make so many mental mistakes that they don't even begin to compensate for players not hitting and even those who do hit well make costly, stupid mistakes. It's so pathetic to see all the players going through their various handshakes, dances and poses in the dugout and on the field and then demonstrating that they don't even know the right way to play the game. All style and no substance. It's been going on for so long that it's now the norm for this team. We can't expect it to change if the coaching staff hasn't fixed it by now. I suspect that since Hurdle was in control when the team went from a joke to a contender, he'll have the job as long as he wants it. Besides, the FO has never demonstrated a willingness to spend enough to win it all anyway. So as long as they seem competitive under Hurdle, I think the FO is satisfied. But I think a major shakeup of the coaching staff is in order.
I agree, and here's an example from last night's game. First inning, first batter Josh Harrison pops down the left field line. The ball drops between the shortstop and left fielder. Where is Mr. "I hustle all the time" Harrison? Just rounding first base. He jogged to first on a ball he "thought" would be caught. If he'd have run like he should have out of the batter's box he'd have been standing on second base. I've seen this type of thing consistently this year with more than a few of the players. Giving up on a play or assuming something will happen when it doesn't. Getting picked off, throwing to the wrong base, letting a struggling opposing pitcher off the hook by not working the count, simply by not concentrating on the game situation. The message is that day dreaming and dogging it is OK. That is on the manager and coaching staff.
I agree. A player's slump is out of the manager's control. But when a team consistently demonstrates lack of knowledge of what to do, that falls on the manager. A manager should get the most out of his players. That means even if a guy hits only .240, he should do his best on the bases and in the field. But year after year, the Pirates make so many mental mistakes that they don't even begin to compensate for players not hitting and even those who do hit well make costly, stupid mistakes. It's so pathetic to see all the players going through their various handshakes, dances and poses in the dugout and on the field and then demonstrating that they don't even know the right way to play the game. All style and no substance. It's been going on for so long that it's now the norm for this team. We can't expect it to change if the coaching staff hasn't fixed it by now. I suspect that since Hurdle was in control when the team went from a joke to a contender, he'll have the job as long as he wants it. Besides, the FO has never demonstrated a willingness to spend enough to win it all anyway. So as long as they seem competitive under Hurdle, I think the FO is satisfied. But I think a major shakeup of the coaching staff is in order.
I agree, and here's an example from last night's game. First inning, first batter Josh Harrison pops down the left field line. The ball drops between the shortstop and left fielder. Where is Mr. "I hustle all the time" Harrison? Just rounding first base. He jogged to first on a ball he "thought" would be caught. If he'd have run like he should have out of the batter's box he'd have been standing on second base. I've seen this type of thing consistently this year with more than a few of the players. Giving up on a play or assuming something will happen when it doesn't. Getting picked off, throwing to the wrong base, letting a struggling opposing pitcher off the hook by not working the count, simply by not concentrating on the game situation. The message is that day dreaming and dogging it is OK. That is on the manager and coaching staff.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Game thread 9/10-Walking Dead Game 1
012531393C500 wrote: The Pirates with a loss tomorrow will have gone 2-8 on this 10 game homestand and a combined 1-6 against both the Brewers and Reds. That's unacceptable for a team with this much talent fighting for a playoff spot. I'm with VA now a lot when he says a lot of changes on this team need to be made going into next season. Certain guys do need traded probably such as JHay and dare I say the names Cole,Cutch or even someone like Marte. Clint Hurdle can't have another season like this one this season I feel and keep his job after next season. Not saying he will get fired if they have a losing record next season but if they continue to play the way they are this season next season there is definitely going to need to be some serious talk of a managerial change. Too much talent on this team to have 2 bad years In a row. Hurdle needs to be held accountable for this mess.
You can't put the full blame for this disasterous season on Hurdle. I do however blame Hurdle for the lack of fight and enthusiasm displayed since the trade deadline. Not sure if it was VA or NC that stated that trading Melancon was the Front Office throwing the white flag on the season. Although the return for Melancon looks good; you don't trade the best closer when your team is fighting for the playoffs. You have to put a large potion of blame on the FO.
This had to have a negative effect in the clubhouse.
Bottom line however is that there were just too many under performers. If I had to rate the top culprits; I would say in order:
1) Just about the entire pitching staff with the exception of the young starters recalled from AAA
2) Cutch- offense, defense, base running
3) Cervelli- Total lack of production
4) Marte-Power disappeared. Expected 15-20 HR. Got 7
Really, Marte? Under performing? C'mon. He's batting .311 which happens to be 29 points higher than anyone else on the team with a minimum of 200 plate appearances. His OBP is .362, he's stolen 47 bases, has 17 outfield assists (leading the league), leads the team in doubles with 34 and by the way has hit 9 homers not 7. His OPS is only 7 points below Polanco who leads the team in home runs and rbi. And yes, Marte has a higher slugging percentage than Josh Bell who everyone views as a basher. The fact that Harrison, Cervelli, and Jaso have hit a total of 9 home runs combined has put a premium on power for this team that has led some to perceive Marte's home run drop off as significant. In reality this year Marte has improved over last year in BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS.
If we're going to talk about under performing players for the Bucs this year Marte should not be in that conversation.
Marte is a stud and a deserved All Star. I only mentioned him strictly for the power drop off. Most projections had him hitting 20+ HR. His BA, speed-SB, glove and arm are the best on the team. He could be an MVP candidate if he increased his power without the loss of average.
You can't put the full blame for this disasterous season on Hurdle. I do however blame Hurdle for the lack of fight and enthusiasm displayed since the trade deadline. Not sure if it was VA or NC that stated that trading Melancon was the Front Office throwing the white flag on the season. Although the return for Melancon looks good; you don't trade the best closer when your team is fighting for the playoffs. You have to put a large potion of blame on the FO.
This had to have a negative effect in the clubhouse.
Bottom line however is that there were just too many under performers. If I had to rate the top culprits; I would say in order:
1) Just about the entire pitching staff with the exception of the young starters recalled from AAA
2) Cutch- offense, defense, base running
3) Cervelli- Total lack of production
4) Marte-Power disappeared. Expected 15-20 HR. Got 7
Really, Marte? Under performing? C'mon. He's batting .311 which happens to be 29 points higher than anyone else on the team with a minimum of 200 plate appearances. His OBP is .362, he's stolen 47 bases, has 17 outfield assists (leading the league), leads the team in doubles with 34 and by the way has hit 9 homers not 7. His OPS is only 7 points below Polanco who leads the team in home runs and rbi. And yes, Marte has a higher slugging percentage than Josh Bell who everyone views as a basher. The fact that Harrison, Cervelli, and Jaso have hit a total of 9 home runs combined has put a premium on power for this team that has led some to perceive Marte's home run drop off as significant. In reality this year Marte has improved over last year in BA, OBP, SLG, and OPS.
If we're going to talk about under performing players for the Bucs this year Marte should not be in that conversation.
Marte is a stud and a deserved All Star. I only mentioned him strictly for the power drop off. Most projections had him hitting 20+ HR. His BA, speed-SB, glove and arm are the best on the team. He could be an MVP candidate if he increased his power without the loss of average.
Game thread 9/10-Walking Dead Game 1
It's so pathetic to see all the players going through their various handshakes, dances and poses in the dugout and on the field and then demonstrating that they don't even know the right way to play the game. All style and no substance. It's been going on for so long that it's now the norm for this team.
You gotta admit, we are absolutely the best in doing the handshakes, dances and poses. Not just the NL, in all of baseball. MLB should just invite the Bucs to the playoffs and WS as spectators for between inning entertainment.