I have been a Pirates fan through some good GM's: Joe L. Brown and Sid Thrift. Those guys got players, turned teams that were competitors into winners.
Just my two cents. Would love to see our Bucs really go out and go for the whole ball of wax!
What direction do the Bucs go?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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BucsFaninGA
What direction do the Bucs go?
The point of the Bucs not just contending, but winning the division is spot on. Just qualifying for the Wild Card is not going to draw free agents, fans or accolades to the Bucs! That qualifying for the Wild Card...is very desperate sounding...Almost like saying as a teenager, I want a date with anyone! Remember what results that got a fella way back when...The Bucs have to shoot for the whole ball of wax! I think that is what ticks off the players in the clubhouse, NH and front office, are not as committed. Hurdle uses the all in theme...and NH dumpster dives, uses the financially responsible line...Does that really sound like a front office that is committed to winning, going all the way!
I have been a Pirates fan through some good GM's: Joe L. Brown and Sid Thrift. Those guys got players, turned teams that were competitors into winners.
Just my two cents. Would love to see our Bucs really go out and go for the whole ball of wax!
I have been a Pirates fan through some good GM's: Joe L. Brown and Sid Thrift. Those guys got players, turned teams that were competitors into winners.
Just my two cents. Would love to see our Bucs really go out and go for the whole ball of wax!
What direction do the Bucs go?
755352455343300 wrote: If the Pirates are going to contend...the goal must be to win the division. Regardless of the talent level of other teams....they cannot try to assemble enough talent to get a WC but not enough to challenge for the division. That was one of many critical mistakes they made this past off season. Despite this FO's mantra of being "good enough"..... it's not enough. You cannot tell me teams are able to say "we aren't good enough to win 95+ games but we are good enough to win 86-94 games" while assembling a team.
I agree that the goal has to be to go for the Division. Then wild card becomes fall back rather than goal.
With the second wild card over half the teams were technically in contention for Wild Card spot in NL with a week to go.
We aren't close to becoming a division winning team. I think people need to get that in their heads. The FO had generated momentum with three consecutive wild card appearances after 22 years of losing. We went 1-2 in those games. Now, as it stands, we are closer to being the worst team in the majors than being with the Cubs. Hate to tell you that. The FO failed in every regard to use those play-off appearances to help the organization with talent. Sure, they got some nice efforts out of Freese, Joyce, Jaso at times, Feliz at times. However, these guys weren't going to put you over the top. Our pitching staff has serious questions, especially our rotation. There is nothing out there, absent resigning Nova, that provides help. A major deal could do that, but do you think our FO has the stones to do it? I don't. We have a lot of questions looming and I think this FO and ownership are more incline with financial flexibility then answering the problems. That right there makes us a non factor.
I agree that the goal has to be to go for the Division. Then wild card becomes fall back rather than goal.
With the second wild card over half the teams were technically in contention for Wild Card spot in NL with a week to go.
We aren't close to becoming a division winning team. I think people need to get that in their heads. The FO had generated momentum with three consecutive wild card appearances after 22 years of losing. We went 1-2 in those games. Now, as it stands, we are closer to being the worst team in the majors than being with the Cubs. Hate to tell you that. The FO failed in every regard to use those play-off appearances to help the organization with talent. Sure, they got some nice efforts out of Freese, Joyce, Jaso at times, Feliz at times. However, these guys weren't going to put you over the top. Our pitching staff has serious questions, especially our rotation. There is nothing out there, absent resigning Nova, that provides help. A major deal could do that, but do you think our FO has the stones to do it? I don't. We have a lot of questions looming and I think this FO and ownership are more incline with financial flexibility then answering the problems. That right there makes us a non factor.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
What direction do the Bucs go?
72756477643538010 wrote: This regime has proven repeatedly that they won't spent significantly to improve talent. So it serves no purpose to speculate on any moves that would not be in keeping with a low payroll. That said, I expect a rotation of Cole, Taillon, Kuhl, Hutchison (gotta make a pathetic attempt to justify the Liriano salary dump trade), and a reclamation project. Hutchsion will subsequently be replaced by Glasnow who starts the season in Indy. The core will remain intact since it is talented and within the desired payroll. Bell will be at 1B with the OF intact. Rodriguez will cost too much as a FA and be replaced by Frazier. Feliz will go. NH will again piece together a decent bullpen. The success or failure will depend on bounce backs from Cutch, Cole and Cervelli.
I think they sign Nova and try like heck to find a decent LHP and Hutchison is the odd man out if they do.
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
I think they sign Nova and try like heck to find a decent LHP and Hutchison is the odd man out if they do.
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
What direction do the Bucs go?
0E1E1F283E3E325D0 wrote: If the Pirates are going to contend...the goal must be to win the division. Regardless of the talent level of other teams....they cannot try to assemble enough talent to get a WC but not enough to challenge for the division. That was one of many critical mistakes they made this past off season. Despite this FO's mantra of being "good enough"..... it's not enough. You cannot tell me teams are able to say "we aren't good enough to win 95+ games but we are good enough to win 86-94 games" while assembling a team.
I agree that the goal has to be to go for the Division. Then wild card becomes fall back rather than goal.
With the second wild card over half the teams were technically in contention for Wild Card spot in NL with a week to go.
We aren't close to becoming a division winning team. I think people need to get that in their heads. The FO had generated momentum with three consecutive wild card appearances after 22 years of losing. We went 1-2 in those games. Now, as it stands, we are closer to being the worst team in the majors than being with the Cubs. Hate to tell you that. The FO failed in every regard to use those play-off appearances to help the organization with talent. Sure, they got some nice efforts out of Freese, Joyce, Jaso at times, Feliz at times. However, these guys weren't going to put you over the top. Our pitching staff has serious questions, especially our rotation. There is nothing out there, absent resigning Nova, that provides help. A major deal could do that, but do you think our FO has the stones to do it? I don't. We have a lot of questions looming and I think this FO and ownership are more incline with financial flexibility then answering the problems. That right there makes us a non factor.
I'm inclined to believe this and if it is in fact the case then NH should get fired. It didn't have to be the case but last season's off season set the stage for decline. I am willing to give the team one more off season to say that this was a blip and that maybe they know what they are doing as far as winning goes. But I do think the odds are that the Bucs peaked last year.
I agree that the goal has to be to go for the Division. Then wild card becomes fall back rather than goal.
With the second wild card over half the teams were technically in contention for Wild Card spot in NL with a week to go.
We aren't close to becoming a division winning team. I think people need to get that in their heads. The FO had generated momentum with three consecutive wild card appearances after 22 years of losing. We went 1-2 in those games. Now, as it stands, we are closer to being the worst team in the majors than being with the Cubs. Hate to tell you that. The FO failed in every regard to use those play-off appearances to help the organization with talent. Sure, they got some nice efforts out of Freese, Joyce, Jaso at times, Feliz at times. However, these guys weren't going to put you over the top. Our pitching staff has serious questions, especially our rotation. There is nothing out there, absent resigning Nova, that provides help. A major deal could do that, but do you think our FO has the stones to do it? I don't. We have a lot of questions looming and I think this FO and ownership are more incline with financial flexibility then answering the problems. That right there makes us a non factor.
I'm inclined to believe this and if it is in fact the case then NH should get fired. It didn't have to be the case but last season's off season set the stage for decline. I am willing to give the team one more off season to say that this was a blip and that maybe they know what they are doing as far as winning goes. But I do think the odds are that the Bucs peaked last year.
What direction do the Bucs go?
547273647262110 wrote: If the Pirates are going to contend...the goal must be to win the division. Regardless of the talent level of other teams....they cannot try to assemble enough talent to get a WC but not enough to challenge for the division. That was one of many critical mistakes they made this past off season. Despite this FO's mantra of being "good enough"..... it's not enough. You cannot tell me teams are able to say "we aren't good enough to win 95+ games but we are good enough to win 86-94 games" while assembling a team.
I agree that the goal has to be to go for the Division. Then wild card becomes fall back rather than goal.
With the second wild card over half the teams were technically in contention for Wild Card spot in NL with a week to go.
We aren't close to becoming a division winning team. I think people need to get that in their heads. The FO had generated momentum with three consecutive wild card appearances after 22 years of losing. We went 1-2 in those games. Now, as it stands, we are closer to being the worst team in the majors than being with the Cubs. Hate to tell you that. The FO failed in every regard to use those play-off appearances to help the organization with talent. Sure, they got some nice efforts out of Freese, Joyce, Jaso at times, Feliz at times. However, these guys weren't going to put you over the top. Our pitching staff has serious questions, especially our rotation. There is nothing out there, absent resigning Nova, that provides help. A major deal could do that, but do you think our FO has the stones to do it? I don't. We have a lot of questions looming and I think this FO and ownership are more incline with financial flexibility then answering the problems. That right there makes us a non factor.
I'm inclined to believe this and if it is in fact the case then NH should get fired. It didn't have to be the case but last season's off season set the stage for decline. I am willing to give the team one more off season to say that this was a blip and that maybe they know what they are doing as far as winning goes. But I do think the odds are that the Bucs peaked last year.
Actually, the person that needs to get fired is our owner. I think NH has more creative ability than Littlefield and has identified cheap value. However, unless the ownership is on board to improving the roster in hopes to win a division title, then its a lost cause. Last year, we had a pretty good starting rotation. The addition of Happ late solidified it. Cole, Liriano, Burnett, Happ ... that is pretty good. We only have Cole left. If you don't resign Nova, which I truly have zero faith in that happening, we are very close to having a rotation of Cole, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams and Brault. Something like that. Or Brault is replaced by someone of the pedigree of Harang or Lohse. That is am amazing decline.
Pittsburgh can't get into a bidding war for solutions on the free agent market. They have to make a deal. Our farm system is pretty darn good and we do have pieces to move in order to get that player. However, our FO is more inclined to hope Glasnow figures it out instead of making a deal for a more dependable arm. I wonder if NH is having regrets saying no to Tampa for a deal involving Chris Archer with Glasnow going the other way.
I agree that the goal has to be to go for the Division. Then wild card becomes fall back rather than goal.
With the second wild card over half the teams were technically in contention for Wild Card spot in NL with a week to go.
We aren't close to becoming a division winning team. I think people need to get that in their heads. The FO had generated momentum with three consecutive wild card appearances after 22 years of losing. We went 1-2 in those games. Now, as it stands, we are closer to being the worst team in the majors than being with the Cubs. Hate to tell you that. The FO failed in every regard to use those play-off appearances to help the organization with talent. Sure, they got some nice efforts out of Freese, Joyce, Jaso at times, Feliz at times. However, these guys weren't going to put you over the top. Our pitching staff has serious questions, especially our rotation. There is nothing out there, absent resigning Nova, that provides help. A major deal could do that, but do you think our FO has the stones to do it? I don't. We have a lot of questions looming and I think this FO and ownership are more incline with financial flexibility then answering the problems. That right there makes us a non factor.
I'm inclined to believe this and if it is in fact the case then NH should get fired. It didn't have to be the case but last season's off season set the stage for decline. I am willing to give the team one more off season to say that this was a blip and that maybe they know what they are doing as far as winning goes. But I do think the odds are that the Bucs peaked last year.
Actually, the person that needs to get fired is our owner. I think NH has more creative ability than Littlefield and has identified cheap value. However, unless the ownership is on board to improving the roster in hopes to win a division title, then its a lost cause. Last year, we had a pretty good starting rotation. The addition of Happ late solidified it. Cole, Liriano, Burnett, Happ ... that is pretty good. We only have Cole left. If you don't resign Nova, which I truly have zero faith in that happening, we are very close to having a rotation of Cole, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams and Brault. Something like that. Or Brault is replaced by someone of the pedigree of Harang or Lohse. That is am amazing decline.
Pittsburgh can't get into a bidding war for solutions on the free agent market. They have to make a deal. Our farm system is pretty darn good and we do have pieces to move in order to get that player. However, our FO is more inclined to hope Glasnow figures it out instead of making a deal for a more dependable arm. I wonder if NH is having regrets saying no to Tampa for a deal involving Chris Archer with Glasnow going the other way.
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Bobster21
What direction do the Bucs go?
It's easy to say the Pirates have to set their sights on the Cubs but the Cubs will always be able to substantially outspend them. The Cubs supplemented a 97-win team from last year by re-signing Fowler and adding Heyward, Lackey and Zobrist. Matching the Cubs is just not realistic. The FO will say the right things, like their goal is a championship but the reality is that they want to put together as good a team as a small budget will allow. The core was solid enough to win 98 games when the pitching was anchored by an effective Cole, Liriano, Burnett/Happ and when Cutch was playing like an All-Star. But pitching is the key. If Cole bounces back and Taillon and Kuhl are solid next year, they could make another WC run. But maintaining a small payroll is clearly their priority.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
What direction do the Bucs go?
072A27363120377774450 wrote: It's easy to say the Pirates have to set their sights on the Cubs but the Cubs will always be able to substantially outspend them. The Cubs supplemented a 97-win team from last year by re-signing Fowler and adding Heyward, Lackey and Zobrist. Matching the Cubs is just not realistic. The FO will say the right things, like their goal is a championship but the reality is that they want to put together as good a team as a small budget will allow. The core was solid enough to win 98 games when the pitching was anchored by an effective Cole, Liriano, Burnett/Happ and when Cutch was playing like an All-Star. But pitching is the key. If Cole bounces back and Taillon and Kuhl are solid next year, they could make another WC run. But maintaining a small payroll is clearly their priority.
Just wait a few years when the Cubs have their own TV network.
Just wait a few years when the Cubs have their own TV network.
What direction do the Bucs go?
614C41505746511112230 wrote: It's easy to say the Pirates have to set their sights on the Cubs but the Cubs will always be able to substantially outspend them. The Cubs supplemented a 97-win team from last year by re-signing Fowler and adding Heyward, Lackey and Zobrist. Matching the Cubs is just not realistic. The FO will say the right things, like their goal is a championship but the reality is that they want to put together as good a team as a small budget will allow. The core was solid enough to win 98 games when the pitching was anchored by an effective Cole, Liriano, Burnett/Happ and when Cutch was playing like an All-Star. But pitching is the key. If Cole bounces back and Taillon and Kuhl are solid next year, they could make another WC run. But maintaining a small payroll is clearly their priority.
Catching the Cubs and maintaining a small payroll (compared to the big boys) should be achievable. The Bucs aren't going to be favorites vs. the Cubs but could challenge and if enough things go wrong for Cubs and enough right for Pirates then they could win the division.
I don't think it can be done by maintaining a payroll around 105 million. If the ownership won't allow the Bucs payroll to expand and if moves this off season show that the payroll limit is the same then the Bucs are showing again that they cannot be competitive for championships without a miracle season.
Catching the Cubs and maintaining a small payroll (compared to the big boys) should be achievable. The Bucs aren't going to be favorites vs. the Cubs but could challenge and if enough things go wrong for Cubs and enough right for Pirates then they could win the division.
I don't think it can be done by maintaining a payroll around 105 million. If the ownership won't allow the Bucs payroll to expand and if moves this off season show that the payroll limit is the same then the Bucs are showing again that they cannot be competitive for championships without a miracle season.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
What direction do the Bucs go?
4C696A6A7F5469616374060 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
What direction do the Bucs go?
616A626E6B6A713432457C646D6A6A2B666A050 wrote:
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?
Here is a radical idea. Most agree that we need a good LH starter.
Seems that the FO has a relationship with Toronto.
This would have been ridiculed a year or two ago but actually makes some sense now.
Trade McCutchen for Happ.
Salaries are basically a wash. Bring up Meadows if he is ready
No way would I make that deal. JA Happ for McCutchen?
Are you speaking from the Pirates perspective or the Blue Jays perspective?